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Not scoring when ball speed "ball detection" is enabled

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  • Not scoring when ball speed "ball detection" is enabled

    I have a pair that won't score if ball detection is turned on, but when I turn it off the scoring works right away.

    On the ball speed sensor, the green light indicates power, and the orange/yellow light indicates that it is lined up with the reflector. I'm not getting any kind of ball speed coming up, which causes it not to score.

    The issue is when ball detection is turned off, it will randomly mis-score, most typically a strike will be marked as a miss, or it's marking an 8 as a 7.

    Any ideas on how I can get my ball detection working again? Is it possibly something in the DVS software?

  • #2
    Which system are you using? When you say the orange/yellow light indicates it's lined up do you mean the light is on or off when no ball is thrown. The reason I ask is because the second picture looks like the light is on but I believe the light should be off when they are aligned.

    Comment


    • #3
      Vantech. So the orange light should be off, and should only glow when a ball passes? Right now, the orange light is on all the time.

      Comment


      • #4
        There's some makes of detector that have the indicator light lit when aligned and some that don't. That said it's best to first swap that pair of detectors with another known good pair first.
        Factory & Converted A-2 (US, Ger, Jap)
        Comscore ECT, Matrix & DuoHD
        Walker B, Sanction Standard, Original K, Flex Walker & Ikon
        Kegel C.A.T.S

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        • #5
          This is the new style speed block, they don't make the old style black boxes anymore with the white reflectors. The old black ones have a red light on them, when a ball passes, the light goes out. Is it the opposite on the new style sensors?

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          • #6
            I wouldn't go by "old" or "new" to make a definite determination on what the lights are supposed to do. And anyway, the lights won't tell you for certain that the detectors aren't faulty or wired up wrong...or there is a connection issue somewhere.

            Try the swap over.
            Factory & Converted A-2 (US, Ger, Jap)
            Comscore ECT, Matrix & DuoHD
            Walker B, Sanction Standard, Original K, Flex Walker & Ikon
            Kegel C.A.T.S

            Comment


            • #7
              I can't swap because the "new" style is using a completely different power supply then all of the other units.

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              • #8
                Whether the light comes on when it's triggered or goes off when triggered really doesn't matter. If you wave your hand in front of the sensor to block the beam and the light changes state then they are lined up.

                Is this the only setup of this type you have? Is this a new install for this unit or has anything changed? Has this sensor setup ever worked since you installed it?

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                • #9
                  The orange light goes off when my hand crosses the sensor, so I think its set up correctly. This is the only setup with this sensor that I have. We put it in last week, and it has not worked since installed. We installed it with the manufacturer on the phone so I'm pretty sure we have everything wired correctly.

                  The reflectors, and sensors are all brand new.

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                  • #10
                    Does the ball detect LED's on the MIB light up when the beam is broken?
                    Factory & Converted A-2 (US, Ger, Jap)
                    Comscore ECT, Matrix & DuoHD
                    Walker B, Sanction Standard, Original K, Flex Walker & Ikon
                    Kegel C.A.T.S

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I suspect you may have the wrong sensor which is why I asked where you got it. If you got it from Vantage or from John then I would suspect this less but if you got it from a third party then it is more likely. The information here may be irrelevant but I'm trying to get you an answer so I am trying to get the most information in fewer posts even if it proves irrelevant.

                      Not all sensors are created equal. There are two basic types of optical sensors based on their output signal. An NPN sensor is a sink type sensor because it will normally have a high voltage on the signal when the beam is not broken but it drive the signal low (0 volts) when the beam is broken. A PNP sensor is a source type sensor because it will normally have a low voltage on the signal line when the beam is not broken and will drive the signal high when the beam is broken.

                      It's been a few years since I messed with the sensors so I don't remember which type Vantage uses. In a moment, I will tell you how to determine which is which. However, fist off, do as James suggested and look at the Machine Interface Board (MIB) and see if the ball sensor light is lit all the time or not. If it is lit constantly, except when a ball passes, then chances are you have the wrong sensor. However, if it is off normally but flashes when something breaks the beam then it is probably the correct sensor. If it does neither than you probably have a wiring issue.

                      I know you said you have Vantech scoring but which one. DVS, Matrix, Duo or other?

                      Since I don't have access to a system anymore, and I can't seem to find it in the literature, this is how you can determine which sensor you need. To determine if Vantage needs an NPN or PNP, on a known good system, place the black multimeter lead on the ground wire going to the sensor. Then place the red meter lead on the signal wire from the sensor. If you get 0 volts when the sensor is triggering the sensor then this is an NPN sensor. If you get a positive voltage when the sensor is triggering then this is a PNP system.

                      According to the second picture you posted, your new sensor is an NPN sensor. If you need a PNP, you can still use this sensor but it takes some modification but let's not get ahead of ourselves. Check the MIB and see if the light flashes on when the ball passes or if it's on all the time and go from there.

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                      • #12
                        We have DVS.

                        I will test all of this out tomorrow and report back.

                        John sent us the parts, and told us how to install them. I will go through and double check everything you've listed.

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                        • #13
                          If you got the sensor directly from John then I suspect it's probably the correct one. Still look at the MIB and see what the light does when a ball breaks the beam.

                          If the light on the MIB doesn't react to the beam being broken then you could have a wiring issue or the MIB could be bad. You can test the wiring issue by doing the procedure I lined out above to identify the sensor. At the MIB, put the black meter lead on ground and the red meter lead on the signal wire for the sensor in question. You should get voltage when no detection is involved and 0 volts when the beam is broken. If you get this then the wiring to the sensor is ok. The wiring diagram in the Hardware manual will show you the pinout for the MIB.

                          If the wiring to the sensor is ok, then swap the MIB with a known good lane and see if the problem follows the board. This begs the question as to why you changed the sensor in the first place? Are you positive the sensor was the problem when you replaced it? What was the initial problem?

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                          • #14
                            One other thing comes to mind. Make sure the odd sensor is wired to the odd lane and the even to the even lane. If you accidentally got the wires flipped, which is easy to do, then the ball won't be detected. You can check this when you look at the MIB. If the odd light flashes for a ball on the even lane or the other way around, then you have the sensors on the wrong lanes and you can just move them rather than rewire them.

                            Also as a side note, on the DVS system the ball speed doesn't have anything to do with when the scoring occurs. It simply says whether or not it should count the score so as not to score when a manual cycle is called for. For this reason you probably have something else going on as well that is causing your bad scores when the speed detection is turned off.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              So a little update. The light on the mib on that pair does not light up when the beam is broken.

                              Comment

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