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Not scoring when ball speed "ball detection" is enabled

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  • #16
    Are these detectors in front of or behind the rake? Early installations had them behind the rake.

    The reason I ask I is because if they are behind the rake there will be an external rake switch that will turn off the detector or interrupt the signal once the rake is down.
    Factory & Converted A-2 (US, Ger, Jap)
    Comscore ECT, Matrix & DuoHD
    Walker B, Sanction Standard, Original K, Flex Walker & Ikon
    Kegel C.A.T.S

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    • #17
      Did you switch the MIB with a known good one. If not that's ok this procedure is just as easy.

      Picture 1 below is what your MIB should look like when looking at it from the front. I have drawn what the pinout of the detector connector (board side) should look like when you look down on it from above (Pic 2). Make sure your connections are the same with the following notes:

      1) Make sure the locking tab on the connector is facing the front of the board (calling the front of the board the side you see when looking at it mounted on the wall as in pic 1). (I believe it should be forward but it has been a little while since I worked on them so just making sure) If this is the case then the following should apply.

      2) The three wires on the right side of the connector should be jumped together. These will be in the row towards the front of the board. (See picture 3)

      If this is the case then unplug the sensors at the MIB.

      WORKING WITH THE ROW OF PINS CLOSEST TO THE WALL ON CONNECTOR ON THE MIB.

      3) The ground is on the left (closest to wall- refer pic 2)

      4) The signal wire from the even sensor should be next to the ground (2nd pin from left next to wall- refer pic 2)

      5) The signal wire from the odd sensor should be next (3rd pin from left next to wall- refer pic 2)

      6) The far right wire next to the wall has no connection.

      7) The only wire from the row towards the front of the MIB is the 12 V positive to power the sensors.

      Confirm these match your setup.

      With the cable still unplugged; use a small piece of wire as a jumper.

      BE VERY CAREFUL NOT TO SHORT THE 12+ AND GROUND TOGETHER.

      8) Jump from ground (step 3 above) to the even lane sensor pin (step 4 above). (refer picture 2 for clarification) The even light should come on.

      9) Jump from ground (step 3 above) to the odd lane sensor pin (step 5 above). (refer picture 2 for clarification) The odd light should come on.

      If the lights come on in steps 8 and 9 then the board is responding to the signal and the problem is in your sensors or the wiring.

      Plug the sensors back into the MIB.


      To test your sensors and wiring:

      With the sensors plugged into the MIB; use a T-pin or small needle to back probe the connector if needed. (Back probe means to put the needle into the connector from the back - make sure the needle contacts the connector pin) Use a jumper to connect the pin to your multi-meter probes. Set meter to DC volts.

      A) Confirm voltage between 12+ and ground (refer pic 2) (lights come on in sensor so it should be good)

      B) Place 1 meter lead on ground and the other on the signal wire from the sensor. Break the beam on the sensor and watch for the voltage to change to 0 volts. Make sure the sensor wire you are testing is for the sensor you are breaking the beam on. Then repeat for the other signal wire from the other sensor.

      This should isolate the problem or at least where to look next and should only take a few minutes. Your picture looks like your sensors are in front of the rake but that doesn't mean there isn't a switch somewhere as James mentioned. Do your wires go directly from the sensors to the MIB?

      Can you take a picture of the wiring at the connector at the MIB? Also do you have a wiring diagram for the sensors that you can take a picture of and post? (looking for wire color to match up with what you have wired up.

      Based on what we have so far, it's looking like a wiring issue. You didn't answer why you changed the sensors in the first place.
      Attached Files

      Comment


      • #18
        Sorry guys, I'm a goose. I completely forgot about the pictures you posted. Unless they were behind the rake and were moved I doubt you have rake switches.

        I would do the MIB swap with another pair next then the wiring check Ex is suggesting.

        In the mean time, can you get a make and model of the new sensors? We need to make sure these aren't PNP.
        Factory & Converted A-2 (US, Ger, Jap)
        Comscore ECT, Matrix & DuoHD
        Walker B, Sanction Standard, Original K, Flex Walker & Ikon
        Kegel C.A.T.S

        Comment


        • #19
          I will be working on it tomorrow. I just took a quick glance today and noticed that the cable on the board side is wired incorrectly. I compared it to the picture you sent, and to the next pair over, and they are wired differently. So I guess my first step would be to wire them correctly. It's strange because this is the cable John sent over to us directly, I figured it would just be plug and play. I will give him a call first thing tomorrow just to make sure it wasn't wired that way on purpose.

          Our sensors are installed in front of the rake.

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          • #20
            Also, the reason we changed out the older sensors was because the cable was causing a short somewhere and it was locking up the scoring from time to time. Since we have gotten rid of the old cable/sensors, the scoring no longer freezes.

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            • #21
              Here's a few pictures to show you what I'm talking about. The new cable came wired with something in the no connection spot, and there is no jumpered cables. The old cables is wired exactly like the diagram you sent me.

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              • #22
                The new connector looks like it is one for the Matrix system. In the Matrix system, the sensor pins (12+, Gnd, odd, even) are in the same place as they are in the DVS system. Picture 1 attached shows the pinout for the Matrix connector. The DVS no connection slot is where the Gnd for the camera on the Matrix system is located. The 12+ for the Matrix camera is directly above that. This would be one of the jumper locations on the DVS. Next to the Matrix camera voltage is the cable shield and next to that is empty on the Matrix. Where the cable shield is and the empty spot on the Matrix are the other two jumper locations on the DVS.

                It looks like you were sent a Matrix setup. It will work but you will need to rewire it. I'm not sure what the camera 12+ and Grnd will do to the to the MIB but since they are outputs to the camera, probably nothing but don't quote me on that. I'm also not sure what the jumpers on the DVS system do but they were obviously put there for a reason so the pins weren't floating. So at this point:

                DO NOT SWAP THE MIB WITH A KNOWN GOOD MACHINE.

                Without knowing exactly where the wires are going to, putting a good MIB in here and hooking up the cable could damage the MIB.

                I'm pretty sure the NEW sensor is an NPN sensor which sinks the signal to the MIB when the sensor is triggered. I didn't find the diagram for the DVS system but I did find one in the Matrix manual that shows the sensor for the Matrix is an NPN sensor that sinks the signal wire when triggered. (See picture 2 but keep in mind this is for the Matrix system) While not a guarantee this is the same as on the DVS system, It's probable they kept the same sensor configuration as they moved to new scoring models in order to keep continuity through the systems. You can verify this by checking the voltages at the MIB on an old lane configuration using the methods I explained earlier.

                The new sensor is a Banner NPN sensor. If you zoom in on picture 2 you posted earlier you can see this. I've included a zoomed in shot of this in picture 3 below. James is familiar with this but if you want to know what an NPN sensor does let me explain it like this. Look at picture 2. In the bottom of the picture you will see the wiring diagram and how the sensor fits into it. Next to where you see the words "Current flow when beam out" is the symbol for an NPN transistor. This would be the opto sensor.

                If you think of the opto sensor as a switch that is normally open and closed when the beam is broken, you can see that when the switch closes, it ties the wire running to the sensor input on the MIB directly to the ground wire. This is why I said jumping the ground to the sensor input on the MIB should turn the ball speed LED on since you are doing the job of the sensor.

                If the old sensors are good with the exception of the wiring (and they probably are) then you can just replace the wire. Cut the old wire off near the sensor and near the plug on the MIB (if you don't want to repin the connector) and wire the new wire in connecting to the old sensor and the old MIB connector.
                Attached Files

                Comment


                • #23
                  I think you've located your problem. There's nothing I can add to Ex's post. He's been far more thorough than I would/could have been.

                  Note: I corrected my last post that read 'are' PNP which should have said 'aren't'. Amazing what two letters do to a sentence. Thank you SwiftKey and thank you to the member that emailed me about my error.
                  Factory & Converted A-2 (US, Ger, Jap)
                  Comscore ECT, Matrix & DuoHD
                  Walker B, Sanction Standard, Original K, Flex Walker & Ikon
                  Kegel C.A.T.S

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Thank you guys for all the help. I got in touch with John and he did say that there's a good possibility he sent out a matrix cable by mistake. Instead of going through the hassle of rewiring everything, he's just going to ship us a new cable this week.. I will keep you posted if that fixes the issue or not.

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