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PBW2 one lane won't go down

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  • PBW2 one lane won't go down

    I have yet another tale of woe.

    Had one lane where the bumpers refused to function. Opened up the box, blown fuse. Looked around, scratched head, replaced fuse. Bumpers went up. Bumpers hesitated, went down. Currently, bumpers go up... won't go down.

    Went back in. Found the dreaded broken common wire. Fixed it. Doublechecked fuse, still good. Bumpers still won't go down. I have continuity on the three wires coming from the up/down switches into the box. Switches have continuity, as far as I can tell. Thought it might be an issue with a relay on the board in the control box, so I swapped the box, to no effect.

    The other lane in the pair works fine.

    What am I missing? Motor? Safety switch?

  • #2
    If this is version 2 of PBWII it could be a poor connection under the grey cover on the motor that connects the black cable from the control box to the motor wires inside the motor. I've found them very badly connected from the factory on many occasions.
    Factory & Converted A-2 (US, Ger, Jap)
    Comscore ECT, Matrix & DuoHD
    Walker B, Sanction Standard, Original K, Flex Walker & Ikon
    Kegel C.A.T.S

    Comment


    • #3
      Sadly, that isn't the case here. I also checked continuity between the wires coming from the motor to the terminal strip, and those are good. I'm also reasonably certain the safety switch is working; unplug one wire from the switch, and its light on the control board goes dark.

      When the minion who relieves me gets here, I think I'll grab him and pull the cover off the box. Put a game on it, have him try to raise and lower the rails, and see if the relays open and close like they're supposed to. If both relays for that motor work, then in my mind, that points to motor.

      I've got another motor here, but it looks used, and there isn't a tag on it. I should probably plug the thing into wall power (black/black, hot to white/red in turn) and see if it doesn't explode. It'll be fun if I have to change it out, as I've never done this before. Ah, well -- gotta learn somehow. Living the Dream, right?

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      • #4
        Doesn't the led's being on mean the emergency up has been triggered and need to be reset before the bumpers will go down?

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        • #5
          As the even lane works normally, I'm guessing no. I know the bumpers popped up when I unplugged the even lane's connector from the box; I would think that unplugging a connector from the switch would have the same effect, but...

          Before I left work today, I borrowed someone to try and raise/lower the bumpers while I watched the relays. Both relays worked; the down relay seemed like it sat there engaged a little longer than the up relay did. I'd say it's definitely motor related, perhaps one of the gears has gone wonky on me.

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          • #6
            Just going by what the service manual says, it appears as though the LED lights when the emergency bumpers are triggered.

            "Emergency UP LEDs (D4, D5) - These LEDs light whenever the emergency up switch has been used to raise the bumpers"

            The actual LED's may vary depending on your board.

            It also looks like the only lane affected will be the lane with the emergency up switch triggered (first line in reset procedure). It also appears that just disconnecting the switch won't reset it which makes sense. You don't want a bumper to reset itself after responding to a child getting a body part caught under the bumper. You would want a staff member to make sure the bumper is clear before placing it back into service.

            Below are the reset procedures from the service manual. You may still have a motor problem but just thought this might provide some light on the emergency up system.

            Attached Files

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            • #7
              Originally posted by exMech View Post
              Below are the reset procedures from the service manual. You may still have a motor problem but just thought this might provide some light on the emergency up system.
              I'll have to look up which manual applies to our system, as we're running Vector Plus; we don't have LCD displays, nor do I recall seeing an SEL button anywhere. I do know that in the past when the bumpers have popped back up because of an object under the rail, we've cleared the obstruction then told the Vector program to restart bumpers on the affected lane.

              Still, another point on the learning curve.

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              • #8
                You may also have a bad emergency switch that keeps telling the system it's active or an short/open in the wiring. I'm not sure what type switches are used for this. Normally open, normally closed, momentary, etc. Since your even lane works ok I would compare the LED between the two lanes and see if one is on all the time and one off all the time (except when triggered) and what they do when the switch is unplugged etc. If the LED on the even lane is off I would try to get the odd lane to go off and reset it if applicable and see what happens then. I would think if the light comes on during emergency up activation and as you said your light was on all the time then it could be an indication that the bumpers are reporting emergency up condition.

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                • #9
                  Just as a quick note, I found the service document sitting on the hard drive in the shop. Ran through the troubleshooting section, and guess what -- they explicitly list this very scenario. One lane, motor works one way, but not the other. Grabbed a replacement lamp cord from Wally Mart and tested the extra motor we had sitting around... and it does exactly the same thing.

                  Troubleshooting flowchart says when this happens... replace the motor. I know what's going on the order pad this month.

                  Things are a bit hectic with the remodel we've got going on right now, but if the opportunity presents itself, I might pull open the cover on another control box to see what the LEDs look like on a different pair.

                  Anyway, I think we can call this one. Thanks, all.

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                  • #10
                    I'd verify you have the correctly rates fuses installed. I've repaired several with broken gears but have never lost a motor in 9 years across 58 lanes.
                    Factory & Converted A-2 (US, Ger, Jap)
                    Comscore ECT, Matrix & DuoHD
                    Walker B, Sanction Standard, Original K, Flex Walker & Ikon
                    Kegel C.A.T.S

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      When the motor should be running, can you actually hear it running? If so, one of your plastic internal motor gears may have broken when the common wire broke. Basically the motor couldn't find the UP switch and kept trying to raise the bumper, either wearing the teeth or breaking the gear completely. They do sell replacement gears for the motors which are pretty cheap.I'd start by taking a look at the gears.

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                      • #12
                        We are currently experiencing this exact problem; bumpers will go up just fine but will not go down, nor will it show a bumper error on vector. I did check the error log for the bumpers and it's saying "The bumper controller detected the up and down switches at the same time." Not sure if this is the same issue you are having but it might help you narrow it down

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                        • #13
                          I'm resurrecting this thread, because of a similar but slightly different problem. The previous issue was solved by replacing the motor.

                          This time, long story short, we have another lane where the motor looks lilke it's eating fuses in the box. Haven't gotten a chance to dig into it yet. This prompted me to dig out one of our motors that we've pulled in the past, where when one applies power, it'll turn one way but not the other. So, I pulled the cover off the gearing. The (metal) gears are intact, and if one turns them by hand, they will in fact turn in both directions.

                          So, if the gearing is good, something in the windings? There isn't much else to look at... if the windings, is there something available on Grainger to swap in?

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                          • #14
                            With our PBWII v2 I've had a couple do the same because of a poorly stripped/connected wire from the motor winding to the cable that connects to the control box. If you remove the plastic motor cover, undo the twist on terminal connectors and check that they are actually connecting the wires properly.
                            Factory & Converted A-2 (US, Ger, Jap)
                            Comscore ECT, Matrix & DuoHD
                            Walker B, Sanction Standard, Original K, Flex Walker & Ikon
                            Kegel C.A.T.S

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I just did, and they are. As a further test, I unhooked the black cable and directly connected the wires coming from the motor windings to wall power (okay, okay, sorry... "the mains" ) and got the same result. White wire, the shaft turns. Red wire, one can feel the case hum a bit, but no movement on the shaft.

                              I'll go do some more googling and see if I can find that motor separately. I'm seeing "BR-01" and "ON-1106" on the label.

                              Comment

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