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  • Kickback Plates/Pin Deck advice

    Hello, I am a new member and was hoping that I could pick your brains for information on kickback plate coating and pin deck applications for synthetic pin decks.

    I am the proprietor of an 8 lane (wood) center. Over the past couple of years, in an attempt to increase pin action, I have installed new flat gutters (AMF)and AMF kickback plates. I believe that the installer did not do a good job in securing/supporting the flat gutters. I recently have (I believe) corrected that problem and pin action has improved slightly.

    I have two questions;(1)I read in one of the forums that some of you coat the kickback plates. What do you coat it with and how often does it have to be re-applied?

    (2)My second question deals with pin deck treatments. I'm presently using a treatment but I read that some of you use a 50/50 mixture of bleach and water. I have Bruswick Armour Plate pin decks and I tried this last night. On a positive note, it seemed to last longer than the treatment that I was using and of course - it cost less. On a negative note - it seems like it takes longer to dry and while it might of been not completely dry, it tracked back up on some of the balls.

    Any input on the above would be appreciated.

    TonyP

  • #2
    Re: Kickback Plates/Pin Deck advice

    Tony,
    I work in 2 completely different houses. A 50 lane center with state of the art everything & the other is a 24 lane neighborhood “alley” with state of the art nothing. So, I get to see just about everything there is to see (in an AMF environment).
    To answer your 1st question, we (Both houses) use clear urethane to coat the kickbacks. At the 50 lane center, we coat them every 6 months. At the 24 lane house we coat once a year (Far less lineage) & coat the wood flat gutters & pindecks at the same time. The key to knowing when to recoat is to monitor the high wear area (Usually the flat gutters) to see how long it takes before it starts to deteriorate. In the future, recoat a couple of months sooner.
    We also use bleach to treat the pindecks. 3 -4 squirts from a trigger sprayer twice a week. The 1st bowlers on the lane will see a track on their ball (We give them a towel & tell them the truth, "It's a pindeck treatment"), after the lane is stripped once the excess will be removed but there will be enough residue to keep the pins from sliding for a few more days.
    Dutch

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    • #3
      Re: Kickback Plates/Pin Deck advice

      Dutch,

      Thanks for the input. In reading over the forums the past week or so, I recognize your name and value your thoughts.

      Pindeck Treatment - with my old pindeck treatment, I was re-applying everyday - since I strip everyday. But, you are saying that the residue should carry over for a day or two and it is not necessary to re-apply everyday.

      Kickback Coating - In your opinion, is this done primarily for protection or pin action? If pin action - should I expect a noticable change?

      Tony P.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Kickback Plates/Pin Deck advice

        Tony good to have you with us.I work with 24 lanes new overlays and new amf pindecks. I prefer to use one or the other. 1st one is denatured alcohol and 2nd is stripper fluid both work great. the alcohol cleans great and dries in seconds. Stripper fluid also cleans great but i make a second pass with a dry rag so not to leave residue.Neither one should do anything to your decks there all fiber composite

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        • #5
          Re: Kickback Plates/Pin Deck advice

          Also Tony do you do a full strip every day.If this is so you shouldn't need to do your decks anymore than once a week.You can use both in spray bottles.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Kickback Plates/Pin Deck advice

            Craig,

            Thanks. Yes, in an attempt to get everything really clean back there, I have been doing a full strip (my Gemini Silver Bullit is set to 63ft.) everyday. My goal is twofold - to eliminate out-of-ranges and to kick over a pin or two.

            With my old treatment, it seemed to wear off with the daily full-strip and the pins would start to slide by the end of the first day unless I applied the coating everyday.

            Tony P.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Kickback Plates/Pin Deck advice

              Tony,
              I believe that coating of kickbacks is done to protect the materials the kickbacks are made of. By doing this, you are protecting future pin action by not allowing the kickbacks to deterioate and become soft. If you want to increase pin action, try stiffening the kickbacks by driving a 2X6 between them. You may have to trim the wood to help it fit without moving the kickbacks. All you want to do is make a tight fit, not move anything. You stated you stiffened the flat gutters so that should not be an issue.

              The problem you are having with the bleach...I see everytime I train a new pinchaser. They always get carried away with spraying. A little spray goes a long way. The less you use, the quicker it will dry. You don't want to bathe the pindeck with this stuff, just a light mist. Hope this helps.

              Just my two cents worth...

              Steve
              TSM & TSM Training Development
              Main Event Entertainment
              480-620-6758 for help or information

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Kickback Plates/Pin Deck advice

                Tony, What type of kick backs did you have installed?The plastic or fiber? Hopefully the fiber. If so I have used the poly-chem pin cote with great succsess, offers great protection from wear and tear and after a few coats it does increase pin action! If you had the plastic ones installed it wouldnt do much good to coat them because it's not going to stick very long. I dont care for the plastic kickbacks or flat gutters much, you lose a lot of your pin action with them. Nothing beats a fiber plate or hardwood gutters coated with pin coat when it comes to pin action.
                On the pindeck treatment if your looking for the economical route the bleach and water works but for a few extra cents just about all of the lane product manafactuers make pindeck treatment that works better and lasts longer. I have used the N.P.S from Kegel in the past and it works pretty good but IM presently switching to the Legends deck treatment due to it has additive to accelerate the drying time.
                Ed

                ------------------
                Please buy MADE IN USA!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Kickback Plates/Pin Deck advice

                  Ed,

                  I'm not sure what they are made of...I know that they are an AMF product and they are light grey in color. I purchased them about 2 or 3 years ago.

                  If anyone out there has these and can help identifying the make-up, I would appreciate it if you would let Ed know so we can determine if coating them would be helpful.

                  Thanks,
                  Tony P.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Kickback Plates/Pin Deck advice

                    Tony, take a look at your kick backs, are they dull looking or glossy? If there glossy were they coated or in the same condition as when they were installed?
                    Ed

                    ------------------


                    [This message has been edited by Ed Fox (edited 11-29-2000).]
                    Please buy MADE IN USA!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Kickback Plates/Pin Deck advice

                      Ed,

                      They have never been coated since they were installed (about 2 - 3 years)and they have a semi-gloss look to them.

                      Tony P.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Kickback Plates/Pin Deck advice

                        Tony,
                        JBEES answered your kickback coating question perfectly.
                        Yes, the bleach residue should remain "functional" for a couple of days, even with daily stripping.
                        Dutch

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Kickback Plates/Pin Deck advice

                          I was speaking to a person last night that services lane equiptment and he was telling me that he had seen a center that was useing bleach and they were getting a build up of the bleach residue and it was acctually leaving white marks on the bowling balls, "bleaching them". Has any one else ever seen this?

                          Tony, if you look at the kick backs up close you can tell if their plasic, if they are I wouldnt bother coating them, their designed to be "maintinance free". If their fiber plates just scuff them up with 80 grit paper, clean them and coat them with the product of your choice, I perfer polychem pin-cote.
                          Good Luck Ed

                          ------------------
                          Please buy MADE IN USA!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Kickback Plates/Pin Deck advice

                            Thanks to everyone for the replies.

                            My kickbacks look to be plastic/synthetic material so - I'm guessing no coating is necessary.

                            As far as increasing pin-action, Steve - you mentioned about the 2x6 idea of adding more support between the kickback plates. I don't know if I am following you correctly on this - I only have open space between where the ball return area is (between lanes 1&2, 3&4 ect). There is no space to add support between lanes 2&3(the non-ball return area) - already looks to be a solid piece. If that is the case...what would you recommend (I have a 5 inch wide space between the lanes) how many supports? Also, if done properly, will I notice more action? Has anyone else done this that can comment on its effect?

                            Thanks,
                            Tony P.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Kickback Plates/Pin Deck advice

                              Ed,
                              The white marks on the track are just excess bleach. It should wipe off easily with a dry rag. I’ve never seen the ball, itself, become bleached. Tell your friend to only apply it sparingly, twice a week. About 3 squirts from a trigger sprayer should do it. As I said before, the 1st bowlers will notice the residue but after that it should be fine & enough residue will remain after stripping to be functional for a couple of days.

                              Tony,
                              Even if your kickback plates are plastic, you may want to apply a coat of some type to seal the nails in. That is, if they are nailed on. A better way to seal the nails in (but it will take longer) is to heat the plastic around the nail head. It will wrap around the edges of the head & hold it in. I’d use a propane torch to do the job but if you just want to see what it looks like try a bic lighter.
                              As for bracing the kickbacks, ours were installed that way. The braces run solid around the entire kickback with an extra vertical brace, top to bottom in the middle. This, of coarse, is on the ball door side only. I don’t know if the common side can be braced, except to make sure that the machine mounting hardware is tight.
                              Dutch

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