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No Power or Cycle 82-70 S.S. Omega-Tek BES Scoring

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  • No Power or Cycle 82-70 S.S. Omega-Tek BES Scoring

    Hello,

    Lane 1 at our center is having some serious electrical issues. At the moment there are only two pins on the C-1 with power (EE and H), I've been crawling around with a tester for days and I can't find the issue so far. The chain of events starts last week so this may be a long read but I'm going to try to get as much detail as I can in.

    1) Lane 1 wasn't cycling from the front desk or either of our cycle buttons in the back (control box and one on the front wire way next to the main power plug) as of last Wednesday. I could get the deck light and contactors to energize with a jumper on the A&MP (I saw the post on here about the instructomat glitch). Even with the jumper the sweep wouldn't run (motor buzzed and burned out, fried a board in the chassis, T-1, and the sweep contactor when I tried with the cam switch).
    2) Put a new chassis, sweep motor and gearbox on the sweep (the old GB was grinding and leaking). Everything seemed to work with the A&MP jumper except the sweep motor acting like the caps or the start winding were bad (tested the caps on the meter, they seemed good the motor ran fine powering it from Lane 2, chassis ran Lane 2 fine and dandy). Plugging the A&MP back in gave me a dead machine still. That's where I left it Wednesday, unplugged everything and left a note with the desk and a sign across the front of the lane.
    3) Thursday morning I came back in expecting a quick and easy fix so I could move on to some other trouble calls but that just wasn't the case. I tried to power the machine up but it was dead as a door-nail even with the jumper. Tested the chassis on 2 again, it was goofing so I tried to stick the chassis from 2 on 1 to see if that would get me back to where I was on Wednesday. No dice on that so I had a look at the C-1 and the face was sooty and gross with 4 completely torched pins, the chassis I pulled off of it had 4 torched pins (one of which was pushed almost all the way back through the plug block). Re-pinned the burnt bits of the plug blocks, tested the chassis on 2, it worked fine, back in business. Stuck it back on 1, dead machine, tried the lane 2 chassis again, dead machine. Grabbed the tester and went through the C-1 and had juice on 3 pins. Called it off on Lane 1 because we had 3 of our 7 remaining lanes go down and 1 was realy starting to ruffle my feathers. Got everything other than 1 squared away by quitting time Friday.
    4) Came in this morning and now we're down to 2 pins with juice and no good idea why. I could realy use a second opinion on this.
    Last edited by BSUTech; 10-22-2018, 09:43 AM. Reason: Added tags

  • #2
    Not sure what you have tested yet so don't take this the wrong way if I rehash what you've done.

    Test for voltage on T2 secondary. Should be around 26 VAC. Since you ran this chassis on another lane and it worked I suspect your good but better to verify in place.

    If your machines have a stop switch installed, make sure the switch isn't stuck closed or didn't accidentally get pushed tripping the circuit breaker in the back end control box.

    Check the circuit breaker in the back end control box. You can test this with a meter and the machine off and UNPLUGGED. Remove C2A and test for continuity between C2A-18 and C2A-26 on the cable not the chassis. You should get 0 ohms resistance if the breaker circuit is good. If you get infinite ohms you have a problem in the circuit breaker or the wires feeding it. The terminals A and B on the circuit breaker are what go to C2A-18 and C2A-26.

    Now I know it sounds silly but make sure the scoring is on. Ir's easy to try to find the problem to find out later you never turned the scoring on for the lane.

    With everything hooked back up, make sure the mask switch is closed. Turn the lane off at the managers control circuit.

    Test for voltage across A&MC terminals 21B and 22E. With the managers switch off and all the other switches on, you should get 24 VAC between these two terminals. If not then check the mask switch to make sure it's good. If you can't find the problem then post back and we can help you trace it further.

    If you got voltage across the A&MC terminals above then the machine should turn on when the managers switch is turned on. Well, at least the master relay should turn on and you should hear it click. If it doesn't then you can put a jumper between these two point like you did earlier and the master relay should engage. If it does then you know there is a problem in the managers switch or wiring leading to it.

    Master relay contacts 9 and 11 provide ground for the T1 secondary (unless someone swapped them around at some point) which controls the sweep and table relays. Once you get the master relay ('M') to turn on you should be able to at least turn the sweep and table motors on with the bypass switches.

    I hesitate to say this though because of the motor problems you were having. Several of the problems you are having seem unrelated so proceed with caution. Post back after you get the master relay to work if you want to check things a little closer before firing them up again. If a motor hums, shut it off immediately. If you leave a motor energised while it is humming so you can try to find the problem, you can burn the motor up.

    Post back with your results or if you need more help. There may be more to do here but getting the master relay to energise is the first step. Good luck.

    Comment


    • #3
      I'm wondering if, when you "repined" the C1 block, if you may have inserted a pin or socket into a wrong hole?
      There! Try to NOT work now!

      Comment


      • #4
        You can use the c1 pin layout diagram in the tech reference to assist you check the pin locations and wiring.

        I would re-jump the machine (5&6 on AM&C plug) to see if you can get it to run - intermittent fault on any of the safety or isolation switches can cause havoc

        .
        Bring me the freshest "Mean Green" known to man! Juice on!

        Comment


        • #5
          Update

          I tested the C-1 and all 3 Terminal strips and made sure everything was clipped into the terminals correctly. The C-1 matches the other S.S. lanes we have however it doesn't match the pinout diagram exactly. This is what I have so far, discrepancies with the diagram or faults will be marked with * before the pin code.

          47EE to TS-18: Good circuit, good voltage

          *46AA spliced to 45W: Good circuit, grounded (the TS-19 terminal is grounded out)

          *45W to TS-19: Good circuit, TS-19 is grounded

          *44S to TS-8: Good circuit, TS-8 is grounded

          42H to TS-18: Good circuit, good voltage

          41C to TS-18: Good circuit, good voltage

          *36Y to TS-3: Good circuit, grounded

          35U to TS-4: Good circuit

          34P to TS-17: Good circuit

          33K to TS-12: Good circuit

          32E to TS-20: Good circuit

          31A to TS-22: Good circuit

          *28LL to TSG-2: Blank on all lanes

          *27FF to TSE-2: Good circuit, run to Sweep Motor Plug instead of TSE-2

          *26BB to TSE-1: Good circuit, run to Sweep Motor Plug instead of TSE-1

          24T to TS-23: Good circuit

          23N to TS-27: Good circuit

          22J to TS-7: Good circuit

          21D to 1A1: Good circuit

          *19NN to Ground: Bad Ground, run to TS-35

          *18DD to TSA-2: Good circuit

          *17JJ to TSA-3: Good circuit

          *16Z to TS-17: Good circuit, no voltage

          13L to 1A1:: Good circuit

          I still have a dead machine but I do have power back to all the 110v pins other than 16Z.






          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Alastair View Post
            You can use the c1 pin layout diagram in the tech reference to assist you check the pin locations and wiring.

            I would re-jump the machine (5&6 on AM&C plug) to see if you can get it to run - intermittent fault on any of the safety or isolation switches can cause havoc

            .
            I gave it a go, still dead. I'm thinking the 19NN ground circuit and the grounded terminals may be a big part of the issue. Do you think I should swap out the strips or is there a way to fix grounded terminals in place?

            Comment


            • #7
              As a note we do have all our table motors wired to the AMF brick switches. We have them mounted in the front wire way.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by BSUTech View Post

                I gave it a go, still dead. I'm thinking the 19NN ground circuit and the grounded terminals may be a big part of the issue. Do you think I should swap out the strips or is there a way to fix grounded terminals in place?
                19NN goes to TS 35 and is the only wire on that terminal, so it does nothing.

                You have power in the chassis but a dead machine? I'd be making sure that C2A pins and sockets are all in place with good connections. It sounds to me as if M1 Chassis Relay isn't energizing. No pit light, no nothing?
                There! Try to NOT work now!

                Comment


                • #9
                  You can jump the mask unit also (if you have one?)
                  Bring me the freshest "Mean Green" known to man! Juice on!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I looked through your C1 connections and I didn't see the issues on the pins you have the * beside them. From what I've seen they line up with the schematic. Maybe not exactly but generally. For example where the sweep motor wires going directly to the sweep motor and not the TS.

                    How did you check C1-44 and C1-36. You show these to ground. (There might have been another one but I don't recall without going back through them.) These are line voltages to their components, however, there is a switch between the connection and the line voltage. So if you tested them without them being energised, they will back feed through the components and look like they are grounded. If you didn't get voltage on them when they are energised then this could be where the problem lies.

                    For example, C1-36 connects to the spot solenoid so unless the spot solenoid is energised, it will show it's connected to neutral/ground.

                    C1-44 is connected to TS-8 and the line side of the pit light. However, this won't receive a 120 V signal unless the M relay is energised and again will show it's connected to neutral/ground depending on how your testing for this.

                    So this brings us back to the M relay I discussed in my previous post. Did you run the procedures listed there. Were you able to get the M relay to energise. Without the M relay being energised your machine will not run.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      This may be silly, but make sure your Masking Unit switch is on.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by exMech View Post
                        I looked through your C1 connections and I didn't see the issues on the pins you have the * beside them. From what I've seen they line up with the schematic. Maybe not exactly but generally. For example where the sweep motor wires going directly to the sweep motor and not the TS.

                        How did you check C1-44 and C1-36. You show these to ground. (There might have been another one but I don't recall without going back through them.) These are line voltages to their components, however, there is a switch between the connection and the line voltage. So if you tested them without them being energised, they will back feed through the components and look like they are grounded. If you didn't get voltage on them when they are energised then this could be where the problem lies.

                        For example, C1-36 connects to the spot solenoid so unless the spot solenoid is energised, it will show it's connected to neutral/ground.

                        C1-44 is connected to TS-8 and the line side of the pit light. However, this won't receive a 120 V signal unless the M relay is energised and again will show it's connected to neutral/ground depending on how your testing for this.

                        So this brings us back to the M relay I discussed in my previous post. Did you run the procedures listed there. Were you able to get the M relay to energise. Without the M relay being energised your machine will not run.
                        Good call, I stuck a test relay (couple strips of leather jamming the contacts closed) the old mechanic rigged up in the m slot and it went mostly live. The sweep zeroed itself out and then something in the chassis started buzzing hard. The M relay socket is showing power on pin 10 but nothing else. At least there's a light now with the jammed relay.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Looks like your making a little progress. Again, I would refer you back to post #2 to track down the problem preventing M from energising on it's own. If there is something there that you don't understand, please just ask and I'll be happy to clarify. M relay terminals 2 and 10 are for the coil of the relay. If you get 24 VAC on pin 10 then that's a good sign T2 secondary is good.

                          I would be careful continuing to run the chassis if the buzzing returns again. This may be coming from one of the relays and possibly the sweep relay since you said the buzzing started when the sweep returned home when the buzzing began.

                          So what's your new plan. Let us know what else we can do to help you resolve this.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            My plan for today is testing some spare icecubes out. I'll keep you posted. If I can get that figured out then it's going to come back down to the instructomat circuit (I still have 5-6 jumpered). Thanks for all the help.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I re-wired all 3 icecube sockets and replaced the sweep relay. Still have the A&MC 5-6 jumped. Cam switches are dead, cycle and sweep run switches are dead, the table and sweep run if I manualy close the chassis contactors.

                              Comment

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