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  • Transformer T1

    Hi

    We have recently run out of replacement units for the T1 transformer and have no idea where they used to get it from.
    Does anyone have details on the outputs / inputs of this transformer so we can have them made?

    Thank you

  • #2
    Input can be 110, 208, or 230VAC.
    The inputs are fused between T2 and T3 on the primary windings (multitap for the various voltages).
    Outputs are ground, 22VAC, and 24VAC (actually around 26 VAC).

    You should be able to purchase these through Brunswick, Quality, or any aftermarket parts manufacturer.

    Comment


    • #3
      Hi Thank you for your input, I know they are 110VAC input units.
      I'm located in Port Elizabeth South Africa and we for the most part have a transformers made up.
      The previous owner passed away and he was in charge of the workshop and had all the knowledge with me.

      I took the transformer to a winder and they need inputs and outputs or they can't help me.

      What I've figured so far: ( 11 wires in total coming from transformer)

      Theirs two wires that go to the opposite sides of the "heat sink unit type" on opposite ends

      One wire crimped going to 7854-7-8 z1A

      2 x wires to left side of 5 card board
      2x wires to right side of 5 card board

      one wire to M replay pin 9

      One wire to fuse F3

      One wire to C1 plug (110V In if i'm correct)

      one wire to M2 replay pin 7

      Any input welcomed

      Thank you

      Comment


      • #4
        I think Wookie was referring the Brunswick machine not the AMF.

        You should have all the voltage information you need if you have another transformer. There are also different transformers depending on whether you have the 5 board or the mp chassis and they can be different within the same model itself. However, based on your last post it appears you have the 5 board chassis so the following should apply. I will leave it up to you to verify as I don't have a chassis or transformer available to confirm. The following comes from the schematic which you can find in the back of the service manual.

        The T1 transformer in the 5 board chassis can have up to 13 wires depending on your configuration. Since you only counted 11 you probably don't have the neon lamp supply which are wires 12 and 13.

        There are 2 primary wires. These are terminals 1 and 2 on the transformer and are shown in the first picture below. 1 goes to M2-7 and 2 goes to C1-116Z. These would be the 110 V if that is your supply voltage. You reference these in the last few lines of your most recent post.

        The remainder of the wires are all secondary wires. Wire 2, 3 and 4 go to the lamp supply. These should be the wires you reference going to the heat sink. You only discussed two wires here but there should be 3. I'm not sure where the ground wire ties in but you may just not have mentioned it or it's probably the one you say is crimped. As seen in picture 2 below these are 16 VAC to ground.

        The next set would be wires 6 and 7. These supply 24 VAC to the table and sweep relays. You have them identified in your post as going to the M relay terminal 9 and to fuse 3. These are shown in picture 3 below.

        Next would be wires 8 and 9 as well as wires 10 and 11. You talk about these in your post as going to board 5. Wires 8 and 9 go to the -6.8 V regulator and wires 10 and 11 go to the +10 V regulator. Both of these regulators are on PC board #5. As shown in picture 4 below these should each be 24 VAC.

        I've also included a picture of the Neon lamp supply but it doesn't sound like this applies to you so you can probably ignore this. If you had that it would be wires 12 and 13 and they would be 125 VAC.

        This information all came from the service manual. If you don't have a copy of that you can download it from the QAMF portal. Let me know if you need help finding the manual. Again verify this information for yourself.

        Now, with that being said. Can't you just buy a transformer from AMF or one of the many suppliers. It seems like it would be expensive to do a one off wind for you especially with the number of windings involved. You also will need to know the wire size as that will affect the number of turns you get as well as the current each winding can supply. You also need to match your core within reason. I would be surprised if the shop would build a transformer for you based solely on the voltages but I could be wrong.

        Finally. Are you sure your transformer is shot. A lot of times, transformers and relays get replaced when there is nothing wrong with them. If you need help troubleshooting a transformer, just let us know and we can walk you through it.

        Irregardless, post back how this project goes for you. Good luck.

        Attached Files

        Comment


        • #5
          ExMech thank you very much for the reply, I will start looking into it.

          We have had 2 x chassis that stopped spotting new set of pins and they stay in the pick up cycle.
          Checked that the small card is in the right direction (omega tek cards used)
          Spot replay works in other chassis
          Pins on the C1 plug also are correct.
          Changed out the smaller transformer as well no change.

          The spot replay is not being activated for some reason and the last time we had this problem we changed out the main transformer and it solved the issue.

          Will update as soon as I can

          Please see picture of current transformers used.
          20200213_220001.jpg

          Comment


          • #6
            The secondary wires 2,3 and 4 that go to heat sink.
            Which one would be the earth see below:
            20190409_155145.jpg

            Comment


            • #7
              Hello clinton:

              First off I need to verify a couple items. In post #3 you said that the input voltage was 110 V. To my understanding, South Africa uses 230 V at 50 Hz. That doesn't mean that you can't run 110 V machines there but if you could verify your voltage to the machines that would help. Measure voltage between the two power terminals on the machine plug and then each terminal to ground. The voltage between the power terminals would be the machine voltage. If you measure between a power terminal and ground you may only get 110 VAC and that could be deceiving thinking you only have 110 VAC when in reality you have 230 VAC.

              First we'll look at your transformers and then if all looks good we can move on to helping you troubleshoot your problem. This looks like a lot of work but it is actually pretty straight forward and should only take a couple minutes to actually do the testing.

              In the picture you posted of the transformer you notice you have wires on the left and wires on the right. The wires on the right would be your primary side. You have 4 wires coming out of the transformer and going into the connector which then has two wires coming out of it. There are two sets of winding's on the primary side that allow the transformer to be wired for either 110 VAC or 230 VAC., Refering to picture 1 below you can see that if the machine is wired for 230 VAC then the windings are wired in series. If it is wired for 110 VAC then the windings are wired in parallel. This isn't a huge deal because if it is wired correctly you will get the same output voltages on the secondary but it's nice to now what you are working with.

              I did a quick drawing of a typical transformer of this type. This is shown in picture 2 below. On the top you have the primary windings. Note that these are shown wired for 230 VAC and if it was wired for 110 VAC they would be in parallel as discussed above. The windings on the bottom are the secondary windings. For no other reason than to simplify this discussion, I have labeled the windings from coil 1 through coil 4. I have also included the numbers on each winding for reference to the schematics.

              The first thing to note is that all the windings are isolated from each other. So in the following tests, we will use the ohm meter to test the windings and when we do, you should find there is no physical connection between the individual coils.

              On the left side of the transformer picture you posted are the secondary wires. It's hard to tell exactly what you have because of the rats nesting of the wires but you should notice that there are two wires of each color. Each colored pair of wires would connect to a different winding. For example the two blue wires would be one winding while the two green wires would be another. This will help identify the different windings but we will verify each winding here anyhow. You can print out the drawing and use it to record your results and also identify the colors to each coil. We will concentrate on the secondary windings here.

              THESE TESTS ARE DONE WITH THE WIRES DISCONNECTED AND NO POWER APPLIED TO THE TRANSFORMER. Set your meter to read ohms. Note that when I say you shouldn't get a reading that means either the meter doesn't change or it reads a very high resistance. This DOES NOT mean 0 ohms. 0 ohms means there is a short and is a different situation. I mention this because different meters display these differently and I just want to be on the same page.

              1) Grab a wire and touch one meter lead to it. Then touch the other meter lead to the other wire of the same color. You should read some resistance here. I'm sorry I can't tell you what you should read but we'll get to that in a minute.

              2) Leaving the first probe on the first wire, move the second probe between each of the other wires. You should not get a reading between the first wire and any of the other wires except the wire of the same color. (Unless its coil 1 which we'll discuss in a minute.) Also check between the wire and the primary wires to verify there is no short there.

              In picture 2 below, you notice that wire 3 on coil 1 would connect to wire 4 on coil 1 through the winding and also to wire 5 on coil 1. It is isolated from the rest of the coils so there should be no connection to say wire 6 on coil 2 or wire 9 on coil 3 and so forth. Also, the resistance between wire 3 and wire 5 should be double that reading from wire 3 to wire 4 or from wire 4 to wire 5. That's because wire 4 is the center tap between wire 3 and wire 5. Although you have a reading between these three wires, there should not be any reading to any of the other coils. Generally, the center tap wire is color coded differently from the other wires on the same coil. This is the help identify the center tap winding. It will also be different from the other wires on the other coils. So you likely have a single wire of a different color from the rest. This is likely the center tap for coil 1 but you can verify it using the methods presented here.

              Using this process you can identify the individual coils and verify the color of the wires attaching to them. Mark these on your printout. Also write down the resistances measured between each pair of wires you found to be connected to the same coil. You will notice that because coils 2, 3, and 4 all have an output voltage of 24 VAC, each of these winding should have about the same resistance measurement. This may vary though if a larger wire was used for one of the coils in order to allow that coil to carry a larger current. Also, because coil 1 voltage is similar to the other coils it should be in the same general reading but it will be different because the voltages are different and so it takes a different number of winding around the core to get the different voltage and so the wire is longer/shorter depending on the setup so more or less resistance accordingly.

              Also test the primary windings to ensure you have continuity in the primary. You don't need to disconnect the individual wires coming from the primary, just measure between the two primary wires.

              3) With the probe still on the first wire, touch the second probe to the case of the transformer. You should not get a reading. Repeat this process for the rest of the wires measuring between the wire and the transformer case to test for a short to ground. Also test the primary wires to the transformer case to ensure there is no short to ground on the primary side.

              Repeat this process until you have identified all the individual wires and coils.

              Although each coil is isolated from the others it is possible for the coating on the wires to breakdown over time and cause a short between windings on the same coil or even windings on different coils. The above procedure should verify that there is no short between the individual windings. If you find there is a small resistance, for example, between coil 2 and coil 3 then the transformer is bad. If you find any of the windings shorted to the transformer case then the transformer is bad.

              If you don't find any shorting between the coils or any coil to the case then you can apply power to the transformer and measure the individual coil voltages using the information you have on your drawing and the voltages I posted previously. If you get the voltages on the appropriate coils then your transformer is likely good.
              Attached Files

              Comment


              • #8
                Now with regards to your second picture of the heat sink. I have made a few comments and reposted your picture below. I have also reposted the schematic from earlier of this circuit. In the schematic, you notice diodes 1 and 2 labeled D1 and D2 respectively. These are identified in your picture. The wires attached to them are from the transformer wires 3 and 5. The heatsink only deals with the positive voltages and the ground is not connected to it. Since the diodes use their case as the cathode (the pointy end of the triangle in the schematic of the diode) that means your positive voltage is attached directly to the heatsink and the heatsink is used as a conductor. Therefore, if you attached ground to the heatsink you would cause a short and cause problems. So the ground from the transformer (wire 4) is not attached to the heatsink.

                You can use the method in my previous post to identify the ground wire from the transformer and verify where it attaches.

                I can't say 100% so you will need to verify this but it appears as though the wire I have identified as output is the output identified as not filtered on the schematic. The other wire I have labeled as connection should go of to diode D3. I'm sorry I can't say 100% on this but I don't have an SS chassis for comparison and I don't want to lead you a stray.

                Edit. Above I said I identified a wire as output. I did not do that apparently. However, I did mark this with the blue arrow in the picture. It is the middle terminal.

                You can ignore the connections to the red disks for these purposes.
                Attached Files

                Comment


                • #9
                  Sorry for the multiple posts but there is as length limit and I also want to keep some separation of the topics.

                  So briefly on you problem. You are using 5 board chassis converted with omega-tek. Your profile shows NA for scoring so I assume you still use the machine for detection and not the scoring. Is this correct?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Hi exMech

                    Ok some feedback for you:

                    5 board chassis converted to Omega tek
                    Scoring is qubica t vision
                    Current supplied to chassis is 110VAC we have a transformer step down from our plugs to our chassis's.

                    Please see attached test results as per your guideline provided.
                    New Transfer:

                    T1 Coil Diagram New Transformer.jpg

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Old Transformer from faulty chassis:
                      T1 Coil Diagram Transformer in problem chassis.jpg

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Only thing I haven't tested on both transformers is the output voltages.
                        Am I correct in saying that I should hook up 110Vac to the primary coil?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Yes. According to what you said you should have 110 V hooked up to the transformer. Even if it was 240 V you wouldn't hurt it by hooking it up to 110 V. You would just half the voltage on the outputs.

                          Your readings seem in order with regards to each other. Your resistances on 3, 4 and 5 look a little off. You should get twice the resistance between 3 and 5 as you do 3 and 4 or 4 and 5. I don't suspect your transformer is the problem though but your voltage readings should confirm that.

                          Comment

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