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  • SS chassis related interlock

    Have 2 chassis that have the same problem. Both are SS upgraded to omega-tek with expanders. Both have new enclosed contactors. Wires and terminals for the contactors have been replaced and double checked for errors. Keeping in mind these chassis had the same problem before I replaced all of this stuff.

    What is happening is I get intermittent sweep coast. I'd say 1 out of 5 cycles the sweep will just coast to the 1 pin position. Other times stopping on a dime right where it needs to be. Sometimes when traveling back to guard after sweeping pins it will go to far stopping about 4 inches off the pindeck.

    This is a chassis issue. Tried on different machines, changed PC boards, replaced terminals and wires, and replaced terminals on the C2A plug for the sweep cam switches.

    I don't know what else to try.

    Thanks for any help you can offer
    Mike
    Mike

  • #2
    Re: SS chassis related interlock

    For the sweep coasting at first gaurd position, I'd say check for burnt sockets in the C1 plug, or a loose clamped wire on the contactor. As for the stopping late after 2nd gaurd? I don't think it likely that gravity would allow the sweep to coast upward. It sounds like 2 different problems to me. Are you sure the 2nd gaurd issue isn't in the machine and you just now noticed it because of the chassis issue you are working on now? Just a few things to chew on.
    There! Try to NOT work now!

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: SS chassis related interlock

      Originally posted by Bill LeMieux
      For the sweep coasting at first gaurd position, I'd say check for burnt sockets in the C1 plug, or a loose clamped wire on the contactor. As for the stopping late after 2nd gaurd? I don't think it likely that gravity would allow the sweep to coast upward. It sounds like 2 different problems to me. Are you sure the 2nd gaurd issue isn't in the machine and you just now noticed it because of the chassis issue you are working on now? Just a few things to chew on.
      Yeah I checked the c1 pins first. This one has me confused. The machines run great with their original chassis but the minute I put one of these 2 on they go nuts.

      The wiring is correct as they match all the other chassis, and my schematics. And like I said it's intermittent, works fine 1 out of 5 times or so.

      Thanks
      Mike
      Mike

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: SS chassis related interlock

        Have you tried replacing the wires from the expander to the C-1? I have seen a couple of examples when one of those was flaky and caused the sweep to overload. Jamie

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: SS chassis related interlock

          what brand of enclosed contactors are you using we had a bad g.e. that would do something like that .
          82/70 SS
          SPL's
          expander boards
          vantage matrix scoring
          (with crappy veiwsonic monitors )

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: SS chassis related interlock

            Alright then, go back over the history of the chassis. How long have your Omega-teks been in that chassis and did the problem exist before you up-graded to them? Try converting back (if thats possible) to see if the problem is with the tek boards or in the chassis itself. Or maybe a known working set of boards in the assumed bad chassis will tell you where the problem lies. Maybe a bad solder joint on the mother board? The sweep stopping late at 2nd gaurd is either with the logic (program- boards) or a loose contact point somewhere. Don't the cam switch wires go through the C2A plug and then solder onto the mother board? I used to, way back when, heat up and put an extra drop of solder where the wire terminals connect to the mother board. All the vibration over the years can actually break the solder joints. They're hard to see without magnafacation so I just did them all. More stuff to ponder.
            There! Try to NOT work now!

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: SS chassis related interlock

              Originally posted by seventytech
              Have you tried replacing the wires from the expander to the C-1? I have seen a couple of examples when one of those was flaky and caused the sweep to overload. Jamie
              No I will have to do that as well. Didn't think they would cause sweep problems, but makes sense.

              Mike
              Mike

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: SS chassis related interlock

                Originally posted by 85_3car
                what brand of enclosed contactors are you using we had a bad g.e. that would do something like that .
                I'm using the siemens-allis contactor. Direct from AMF.

                Mike
                Mike

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: SS chassis related interlock

                  Originally posted by Bill LeMieux
                  Alright then, go back over the history of the chassis. How long have your Omega-teks been in that chassis and did the problem exist before you up-graded to them? Try converting back (if thats possible) to see if the problem is with the tek boards or in the chassis itself. Or maybe a known working set of boards in the assumed bad chassis will tell you where the problem lies. Maybe a bad solder joint on the mother board? The sweep stopping late at 2nd gaurd is either with the logic (program- boards) or a loose contact point somewhere. Don't the cam switch wires go through the C2A plug and then solder onto the mother board? I used to, way back when, heat up and put an extra drop of solder where the wire terminals connect to the mother board. All the vibration over the years can actually break the solder joints. They're hard to see without magnafacation so I just did them all. More stuff to ponder.
                  The omega-tek boards have been in 15 years now. The problem just showed in the last few weeks. Already verified that the boards are ok as they are running in different chassis right now. Reverting back to the old boards isn't possible as I've removed my table wires and cables.

                  I will try to heat up the solder joints as you suggested. I know they are 30+ years old now and probably wouldn't hurt to upgrade them.

                  Times like this I wish Omega-tek still made the SS/MP chassis. I don't want that superstar chassis that AMF sells.

                  Thanks again
                  Mike
                  Mike

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: SS chassis related interlock

                    Another thing to check is the wires from the contactor to the C1 for the sweep. I just worked on one where the guy replaced the pins, but didn't cut the wire back enough to get to 'good' wire. The wire he had crimped the new pins to was crispy and badly discolored from heat. If the wires are short, if you're lucky AMF routed the contactor wires under the chassis and brought them up from below to the C1. You can cut the ty wraps or lacing cord, pull the wires up and *bingo* you just gained maybe 6-8" of wire.

                    Here is one where I lucked out with the extra wire:


                    Just ty wrap the excess out and you should have enough wire to the contacts forever!
                    I've had enough of hope & chains.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: SS chassis related interlock

                      As long as you have the iron hot, your solder ready, and the chassis upside down, you might want to do all the solder joints on the mother board. Like the pins on the black strips (whatever they're called) that the pc boards plug into. Keep us posted K?
                      There! Try to NOT work now!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: SS chassis related interlock

                        Originally posted by Bill LeMieux
                        As long as you have the iron hot, your solder ready, and the chassis upside down, you might want to do all the solder joints on the mother board. Like the pins on the black strips (whatever they're called) that the pc boards plug into. Keep us posted K?

                        Good advice. Whenever you have something apart that normally is not taken apart...do whatever PM or 'fortifications' you can. I had a loose relay socket and as long as I had the chassis ripped apart, I re-soldered the other 2 relay sockets.
                        Failed safety course.Question #1:In case of fire what steps do you take? Apparently 'Friggin long ones!" is the wrong answer.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: SS chassis related interlock

                          Well I did solder all the wire pins on the motherboard. Didn't do the pc board slot pins. Since it didn't help I guess it's worth a try.

                          I rechecked my crimps again and they are all good. Brand new terminals, not a single burn mark on them. Brand new contactor. Brand new wiring from contactor to C-1 block. I've been replacing the wiring on the contactors whenever I replace a contactor. It's not the wire as no other chassis has had an issue with it.

                          I'll keep looking the problem will show itself sooner or later.

                          Mike
                          Mike

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: SS chassis related interlock

                            Originally posted by wb8yjf
                            Another thing to check is the wires from the contactor to the C1 for the sweep. I just worked on one where the guy replaced the pins, but didn't cut the wire back enough to get to 'good' wire. The wire he had crimped the new pins to was crispy and badly discolored from heat. If the wires are short, if you're lucky AMF routed the contactor wires under the chassis and brought them up from below to the C1. You can cut the ty wraps or lacing cord, pull the wires up and *bingo* you just gained maybe 6-8" of wire.

                            Here is one where I lucked out with the extra wire:


                            Just ty wrap the excess out and you should have enough wire to the contacts forever!
                            Most of my chassis have been hacked up by previous mechanics, and the machines were used when they were installed in 79. I've been trying to make them nicer like this one in the picture.

                            I've been replacing the stock aluminum wire with copper wire I get from my local electric store. Hoping that it don't discolor and get brittle like the aluminum wire.

                            I do notice you use terminals and not just the wire into the contactors. Is there a reason for this? Better connection? I just strip about 1/2 inch of wire then fold it over and put it in the contactor that way.

                            Also are these contactors in the picture better then the ones I get from AMF? Where do you get them?

                            Thanks
                            Mike
                            Mike

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: SS chassis related interlock

                              you wouldn't believe some of the stuff I see. I had one chassis where someone used #22 gauge wire up to the contactors! A fire waiting to happen...

                              Aluminum wire? I think you are confusing tinned copper wire with aluminum. It looks silverish like aluminum, but it is copper wire tinned with solder (made that way). Any type of wire will get crispy if the conditions are right. I have to figure a way to do it, but I'll post what I mean by crispy - basically it is where the wire looks almost corroded, kinda green sometimes, kinda brown in other cases, My basic rule is if you try to strip the wire & it doesn't strip easily, cut it back a half inch or so & repeat. I've see wires that you had to strip 2" before you hit good wire. Scary if you think about it... If the original terminals in the chassis fits into the contactor & look good - I use them. If someone has put crappy fast-on's, I cut those off and strip the wire back a bit & do the bare wire thing. One thing to remember if you go that route - crank 'em down TIGHT.

                              Those contactors are available from Stahl's 70's ( http://www.tuffyparts.com/index.html ) . P/N 070-011-755-AB. These have been awesome - only one I have ever had a problem with & it was a defect from the mfgr. (it buzzed like a mo-fo). The ones I have seen from AMF are crap compared to these. I've seen the ones from AMF fail in less than a year - if you crack 'em open, you can see why - small contact area. AMF guys, you listening? I have yet to have a chassis come back to me with a bad contactor that I use. They are tough, noisy (which I like - a nice *snap* when they engage) and fairly priced.

                              Hope that helps!
                              Jon
                              I've had enough of hope & chains.

                              Comment

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