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  • pins in table epidemic..

    Hey all.. Just wanted to pick your brains a little and its probably a good thing to discuss..

    What's the best place to start looking in order to rectify pins jumping over the bins and straight down into the table.
    It happens mostly in the gaps on either side of 3,6 bin and 2,4 bins.

    I have noticed the quick fix seems to be putting blocks of wood on the pin butt's the trouble is now there are more lanes with these popping up but I feel this is really shabby and just shows the tech's lack of training because there are clearly adjustments that need to be made in order to stop this from happening,.

    I would hazard a guess that the dizzy is sitting too high?
    What else could be looked at to stop pins from being fired over the bins and into these gaps when the blocks of wood are removed from the pin butts..?

  • #2
    Some home made deeper pockets for the bins sound in order.

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    • #3
      by that you mean grinding down a pair of pin holders so the pin sits lower in the shuttle?

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      • #4
        No - I would build up the sides so they do not spill over.

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        • #5
          A couple of things I'd be looking at would be, as you said dizzy height, Currently how high above the rear bin frame is your dizzy belt guard? Also check the alignment of your dizzy with the safety link.

          Remove both rear springs (safety link and lateral), remove the drive shaft and extend the carriage fully and see if the dizzy stays true at the head pin and doesn't move to one side or the other. If it does, you will need to loosen the 2 nuts holding the top of the support casting to the pinwheel cover and adjust it accordingly.

          Also check the condition of your butt guide rubber mounts, if they are worn the butt guides may be far too spongy and allow the pins to bounce off the butt guide instead of hitting it then dropping straight in...

          For me these would be starting places to look at...
          AS REQUESTED....The all new and VERY improved "super cool" Pin_Head with super hip shades.....

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          • #6
            Yeah I didn't have too long with the machines today it was more of a drop in and have a look at the state of play before accepting the job kinda thing I asked to see how bad things were down the back end before saying yes.. but I saw some pretty gash stuff.. "permanent quick fixes" which I was like guys this is not cool and It will be coming off so we can make the correct adjustments to fix them problems instead..!! to which i received the reply "no they are not" from the chief mechanic.. good start thought I 5 mins and they are already holding up the gloves and becoming very defensive towards me.

            Yeah I see what you mean now after hitting google. I can see quite a few mech's have been modding 70 bin assemblies.. I'm not great when it comes to mod's I'm a fan of having everything original.. shame these spotters work best when anything but original.
            I will be walking into a center where the mech's have got some really gash methods and I want to get them out of that mind set and not cutting too many corners just to bring stops down and make them seem better mech's than they are..

            The problem I have is that i am going in as a tech who will have more experience and knowledge than both chief and the senior tech
            I stopped by the center for a few hours and after pointing out some issues with some permanent quick fixes done to these 70's these guys immediately disagreed with everything I suggested and went full defensive on me.

            The senior tech then said to me that "who cares if bearings are knocking, pin wheels are shaking themselves to death and we have cable tied bits of wood to bins we have got stops per frame right down.."
            This made me quite sad.. I tried to explain that when all the bearings let go on their PBL's and Pinwheels all at the same time would you still look good with 10 lanes out at once.. not to mention blowing your yearly budget on parts in a week rather than spreading the cost out over time as the work gets done but they still refused to listen.

            The machines are so clean.. they have been working hard in that respect but making metal shine is easy.. so many small adjustments need to be made that I observed like dizzy belt tracking, worn shuttle springs, PBL Bearing changes, carpet tracking all minor stuff which needs to be rectified.. Once you get behind on the basics its going to be so hard getting them all back to a reasonable setup.. but no they were still like f' you with your amf training we are good here.
            I was looking forward to getting back on the 70's after a few years doing other mechanical work but I don't know if I can work alongside a team that is going to hate me from day 1 because I have superior knowledge and they are clearly threatened by this. Shame because I would have turned them into pretty decent amf tech's after a few months of getting them back to the basics.

            Yes I have 6 years experience in a 32 lane center and sure 8 years out working on aircraft has left me with a few small gaps in memory when it comes to removing a light ball sensor.. but 2 days back in the saddle with a few spanners and my years of experience will come flooding back I know it will.. It's just a shame I think I am going to have to turn it down because these untrained spanner monkey's are not going to embrace my willingness to teach them all to be better mechanics,.
            Last edited by Bravedave; 03-03-2014, 08:03 PM.

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            • #7
              I have rods on both sides of the 2 and 3, also the 4 and 6 pin guides tipped up sitting on the nut. The newer pins seem to be getting slicker, also the lanes are getting oilier over the last few years.

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              • #8
                fear's a bad thing. been there, what does the owner say?
                Manufacturers of idiot proof products often underestimate the ingenuity of idiots!

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                • #9
                  The owner is pleading me to come back and work for the center because trained tech's with mechanical backgrounds that area who will be willing to stay for a long period of time are few and far between.
                  I can tell from the 2 remaining techs that will be staying that they have been trained by a cowboy or have maybe just had very little training and then been left to learn by themselves..

                  He also maintains the two techs staying are doing an awesome job and that calls are few and far between but when looking at the machines its only down to shortcuts and I can see that if things continue the way they are going the crap will hit the fan when the quick fixes get out of control and the savings on the spare parts budget now will cost them when everything needs replacing all at once later..

                  Both have just been promoted to senior and chief tech after the other 2 left. Both have 2 years experience and have clearly had very little training.

                  It would be an awesome challenge from my point of view to step in, sort the machines out and give them the knowledge they clearly need but I really can't see the point in trying if they are not going to meet me halfway and be prepared to listen to my advice or understand that they need to change what they are currently doing.
                  Although I would like to go back into bowling mechanics I can't help but think that I am being setup to fail here.
                  I might give the owner a call tomorrow and say if you ever want me to step in as chief give me a call because after meeting the 2 guys if they are not prepared to let me help them kill the bad habits then its going to be a waste of my time, make me miserable, plus not enjoy the position.. or be worth relocating 125 miles down south back to my hometown which I hated anyway haha,

                  Might just wait for another tech position in a different center where the techs are more willing to embrace me into the team without being threatened by me..
                  Last edited by Bravedave; 03-03-2014, 08:57 PM.

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                  • #10
                    I experienced a situation like this before. I had to modify my trip levers by cutting off the last roller on each side. So each trip lever only has 3 rollers on it, and the excess aluminum was cut off with a hack saw.

                    This causes the pin to enter the bin sooner and drop more angled with the head of the pin higher than the belly. This helped me especially in the 4,6,8,9 positions.

                    Something I have done, not sure if this would work for you. I just wanted to share my experience and the solution.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by House View Post
                      I experienced a situation like this before. I had to modify my trip levers by cutting off the last roller on each side. So each trip lever only has 3 rollers on it, and the excess aluminum was cut off with a hack saw.

                      This causes the pin to enter the bin sooner and drop more angled with the head of the pin higher than the belly. This helped me especially in the 4,6,8,9 positions.

                      Something I have done, not sure if this would work for you. I just wanted to share my experience and the solution.
                      It wouldn't hurt to get a set of old trip levers and give this a try on some troublesome lane to see the difference again it's quite a popular mod and have read a few threads about that one tonight. I might give that a go if adjustments fail me it's less of a hack job than extending the bin heights. Which again I would be willing to carry out when I have time to do a tidy job of it. If mods are going to be carried out I want them to last and not cause other issues that I have not thought about. I think its great to share advice this forum such a great resource it is such a powerful tool in the battle for continuous improvement and cost saving!!

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by House View Post
                        I experienced a situation like this before. I had to modify my trip levers by cutting off the last roller on each side. So each trip lever only has 3 rollers on it, and the excess aluminum was cut off with a hack saw.

                        This causes the pin to enter the bin sooner and drop more angled with the head of the pin higher than the belly. This helped me especially in the 4,6,8,9 positions.

                        Something I have done, not sure if this would work for you. I just wanted to share my experience and the solution.
                        House, would you be able to post a pic of how you have your trip levers modified ? I'm curious to see how you did them
                        Anything worth doing, is worth doing right !

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                        • #13
                          i use to have that problem on a few lanes... u need to lower your dist a little.. either remove the shims under the dist cross beam or the one from under the dist post... make sure to check ur pin feed and make sure if u lower it that its level and the dist trip fingers font hit the bins.... u might also want to make sure when pins are going down the front "fingers" into the bins that they are extending all the way down.. if the fingers dont drop down far enough it can shoot the pin farther into the bin pockets... (make sure ur cable or rod is adjusted properly and the trip rod "blades" arent bottoming out on the pinion gear

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                          • #14
                            i've never had a situation where i had to cut off the trip finger ends... the only problem i have had that needed a mod on the dist was the pinfeed being so inconsistent .. i like the rod on the "kidney" guide rail and a rubber sticker on the "o" pan

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Christian Armor View Post
                              House, would you be able to post a pic of how you have your trip levers modified ? I'm curious to see how you did them
                              Might take a few days, but absolutely.

                              Again, it's not something I recommend everyone to do. It just works for me.

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