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Electrical Issue. Lane 21


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  • Electrical Issue. Lane 21

    Having an electrical issue on lane 20. I jet the ball accelerator to turn on but nothing else. I have 24V at the motor start relay. Nothing at the contractor. I assume my problem is in the thermal overload? I do hear the contractor chattering after the machine is turned off. I know the overload can be removed as my motor has a KLIXON. just not sure how to do it. I attached a wiring diagram of how my overload is wired up. Thanks in advance for the help!

  • #2
    Couple questions.

    1) Ball accelerator comes on so it's a good indication the switches are good. You have 24V at the msr but does the msr pull in?
    2) You hear the contactor chatter after the machine is turned off? Is this a typo or does it really chatter when the machine is off and then do nothing when turned on?
    3) Can you be more specific as to your overload. There are several different types.


    • #3
      Do you get voltage at the contactor coil? Voltage in and out of the contactor?


      • #4
        The chattering contactor makes me think that you have short in the deck light ballast or the rectifier for the pin wheel clutch.

        The old style Allen-Bradley had a subset of contacts in the overload to disconnect the motor on overload. Newer style overloads interrupt the 120 volt control voltage to the motor contactor making it the disconnect point on overload. And even newer configurations don't have an overload in the box because the motor contains the overload. It's always best to have an overload in the box that way it doesn't matter what motor you put on the machine (with or without a Klixon overload) the motor is protected.

        Shoot us a picture of your motor contactor and that will give us a jumping off point to go forward with.


        • #5


          • #6
            NO voltage at the contractor


            • #7
              Ah-So, It's a Japanese love joy! .........I see you have a replacement rectifier in there too. Unplug the 120 volt from the rectifier, both sides of it (their the ones with the squiggly wave form lines next to them) and disconnect the deck light at the box top connector and see what happens.

              The rectifiers that are recommended replacements are listed as 25 amp, they are to weak for the purpose. Modern electronic components are usually over rated when use in extreme circumstances, and running an DC electric clutch is extreme! Bump that up to a 1000 volt 50 amp bridge rectifier, you can find them here:


              The current use rectifiers will short one of the internal diodes and allow voltage to flow backwards through it causing all kinds of weird things to happen.

              As far as "no voltage at the contactor", do you mean line voltage at the top row of power connections or at the side connections for the coil? If you mean the side connections then you may have a problem at the Motor Start Relay (it's the other contactor below that looks like the motor contactor) but it's coil voltage is 24 volt. Is the MSR (Motor Start Relay) pulling in solid and staying on when it's suppose to?

              Oh, when you mount a bridge rectifier always put a dab of thermal paste between the rectifier base and the box mounting point to induce cooling of the rectifier.


              Also, at the overload itself you can see where the wires that come from the motor contactor above go to the top row of connectors on the overload then out the bottom row of connectors to the wires heading to the wire channel. There are two more wires on the overload on the side of it. These are the actual control voltage wires for the motor contactor and this is where the overload disconnects on safety. If the overload trips or is bad these are the two wires involved that open the motor contactor. If the overload is bad (failed) to test it jumper the two wires on the side connections. I've only ever had one failed Jap overload out of 60+ Jap machines that I serviced. Motor Contactors where another story.........but I soon learned that you can disassemble both the motor contactor and the motor start relay and all the parts are interchangeable, the only difference is the coils themselves.


              • #8
                Your original drawing is missing some information. In the group of 6 terminals on the left in your drawing you show the middle two terminals have no connections to them. This is correct.

                The two wires you have labeled as 'to wire channel" go to the motor. The two you have labeled "to motor contactor" provide power to the overload (heaters) and on to the motor when the contactor is energized. The wire that goes to the time delay provides high voltage to the reset solenoid via the time delay when the machine is on.

                The lower right hand corner you have two screw terminals. One of these you have labeled "to motor start relay". This is correct and should go to terminal 2 on the motor start relay (msr). The other terminal, the one you don't show connected to anything, should go to the coil on the contactor. These contacts are normally closed and will open when the heater (motor overload) senses to much current and de-energize the contactor. By connecting these two wires together, you will bypass the overload. (Only as far a the contactor coil goes but not the heater elements) If you suspect the overload is the problem you can jump these two terminals in the lower right corner of your drawing and the contactor should engage if the overload is the problem. This will bypass the internal overload though and if the motor Klixon fails to operate properly then there is no protection for the motor.

                The preferred method to test the overload contacts though is to disconnect the two wires (one to msr and one to contactor coil) and with the power off, use an ohm meter to measure the resistance across the two terminals on the overload. Infinite ohms means the overload is open and is likely the fault while 0 ohms indicates the contacts are closed and should be good.

                Let us know if you need further help. Good luck.


                • #9


                  • #10
                    i'm still fighting with this machine.

                    I have no power at the coil on the motor contractor. I have 24V at my motor start relay. I have nothing at the rectifier or at the thermo overload.

                    When I push the contacts in on the motor contractor everything works fine.

                    I've replaced the rectifier.


                    • #11
                      I would be testing for voltage on either side of the contacts on the MSR used to feed the contactor coil. By that I mean test from the contactor coil to the in then out contacts on the MSR that would be feeding the other side of the contactor coil.

                      I don't have Japanese machines in my home centre (and I'm not at work) so I can't provide you with terminal numbers for this test.

                      Also forgive me if this was already suggested, I didn't note it in the previous posts.
                      Factory & Converted A-2 (US, Ger, Jap)
                      Comscore ECT, Matrix & DuoHD
                      Walker B, Sanction Standard & Original K
                      Kegel C.A.T.S


                      • #12
                        Check the voltages listed in the picture below. Check all the voltages indicated whether you get the expected results or not. Write down the results you get for each test and post the results back here and I should be able to tell you where your problem lies. Leave one voltage probe attached to TS1-H for all the tests.

                        ***Note: From your previous post and my response, in your drawing, you were missing a wire going from the thermal overload to the motor contactor. Did you check to make sure this wire is connected or if maybe it came loose.

                        Let us know.

                        Attached Files


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