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Electrical, Time delay, Reset button Turns lane on

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  • Electrical, Time delay, Reset button Turns lane on

    When lane 48 is on and I press the reset button on ball lift, lane 47 will go on and relay in ball lift electrical box will buzz as long as I hold down the reset button. The time delay on 48 was changed 2 weeks ago.Not sure what to look for ?

  • #2
    Check your wiring, compare to a good pair.
    Always remember rule #3,(Don't forget rule #1).Rule #1,see rule #3......

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    • #3
      If it doesn't do this with the reset button on the back of the machine, then you are probably shorting two wires in the cable coming from the ball return reset buttons. Disconnect both resets from machines (CP2). This will isolate the buttons from the machines. Then short the two pins in CN2 of 48 (the pins on the machine not the cable) and see if the problem goes away. If it doesn't happen when you do this then the problem is in the cable from the buttons. Check for somewhere it may be chaffing that causes the short.

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      • #4
        If your 3 pin cannon plugs are still attached to the pinsetters you may have a bank 8 issue.

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        • #5
          "If your 3 pin cannon plugs are still attached to the pinsetters you may have a bank 8 issue."

          Not sure what you mean?

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          • #6
            The 3 pin cannon plug sends the signals to the front desk. At the 19 conductor junction box, one lead from the transformer secondary for each pinsetter in a bank of 8 is tied together to limit the number of wires needed to run to the desk. Since the transformer secondaries are isolated this is not an issue. The only time this can become an issue is when you provide a secondary path for the voltage to go between the two machines and like I said they are isolated so it's generally not an issue. The transformer secondary is not grounded so there is no connection through the ground either. One place that exists that would join these two machines together is in the cable leading to the reset buttons on the ball return where conductors from both machines often run in one cable. Since you said the problem shows up when the reset button is pressed, this is the first place to look. Leave the 3 pin cannon connected.

            What did you find when you disconnected the ball return reset buttons as suggested above? This is done by simply unscrewing and unplugging the two conductor plug located on the top right side of each pinsetter electrical box. If your still not sure which connector this is please ask. After they are disconnected, use a small piece of wire to jump between the two points in the receptacle on the machine and see if the problem still happens. If it goes away then the problem is in the cable to the reset buttons. If it still exist with the reset buttons disconnected then we will need to look elsewhere.

            If you need further help then please ask and we will be glad to explain further. Let us know what you find so we can better help you solve your issue.

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            • #7
              ExMech, Thank you for your help.
              When I disconnect reset buttons and use a jumper to reset machine from cannon plug, the machine will reset and the other machine will not go on. I also noticed during a tournament that someone had pressed the reset button up front while the machines were on and in cycle and this made the machines shut off as long as he held the button down.
              It seems to only happen when reset buttons up front are connected. I had tried looking for a broken wire or something, but haven't had any luck yet.

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              • #8
                Sometimes it is easier to use the old wire to pull in a new wire, (if the old wire is Not secured at various places in the ball return). Do you have the bracket over the top of the rake lift shaft? Would suggest securing any wires to the "front" of any frame posts, (so an errant ball doesn't smash the crap out of them and short them out). Don't be afraid to use extra covering over wires at critical spots.

                Bracket C.jpg
                Everything has to be Somewhere !!

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                • #9
                  I was messing around with the reset buttons while the machines were cycling and it seemed to kill the TD module in 48. They are used zot TDMs that someone gave me could they be the culprit?
                  I'm afraid to blow out any more TDMs.

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                  • #10
                    Have you heard the saying, don't poke a sleeping bear. After you isolated the reset switches and wiring and the problem stopped, why would you then reconnect them and start pushing the buttons again. Just because you can't physically see the problem doesn't mean it isn't there. If you want to confirm the problem is in the wiring then take a resistance reading from one pin on the cycle cable on 48 (the plug connected to the wire not the machine) to each pin on the plug of 47. (wires disconnected from machine) Then check the other pin on 48 the same way to 47. One of these will give you nearly 0 ohms resistance. This is the short between the two machines. With the cables disconnected from the two machines and nobody pressing reset buttons then there should be infinite resistance between all these wires but a short will show up as low resistance between the two shorted wires.

                    Depending on how the tdm is connected it is possible the reset switches go to the tdm before the machine but this isn't likely. You can confirm this by throwing a ball with the resets disconnected. If the machine works normally then the tdm is connected when the switches aren't. I'm going to go on the assumption that the reset wires leave the top of the machine and go to the reset buttons.

                    Sometimes it's easier, cheaper and quicker to replace the cable then to try to find the problem. As mickeygm stated above this can sometimes be easily done by hooking the new cable to the old and pulling it through. If there is binding then this isn't possible.

                    You can sometimes track the problem by taking a meter reading on the wires in question at the machine end. Then do the same at the reset button end. The end giving the lowest resistance is closest to the short. This is because the shorter length of wires has less resistance.

                    If you can't find the problem or replace the cable then you can take more drastic measures. Follow the cable in either the front or back to the point where it disappears to go under the lanes. Cut the cable, (giving yourself enough room to work with the wires) separate the wires and check the wires going under the lane to see if the short is gone. If not then it's under the lanes or on the other end. Cut the other end and separate the wires. Check the the wires going under the lanes for the short. If it's still there then the problem is under the lanes. If no short is found, splice on a new piece of cable and reconnect everything. I don't like doing this because it put's connections in strange places but if the problem is under the lanes then it's the easiest way most times.

                    If I get a moment I'll do a drawing to better explain what is happening but this should help out. Once you isolated the switches and the problem went away, you pretty much identified the problem you just need to find the specific point of the problem.

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                    • #11
                      Update:
                      So, I took up all the caps and the wires looked alright but there was an area under the approach were the wires went under the ball track. I couldn't get to them unless I took up the approach. I found an old roll of wire and ran new wire from reset buttons to machines. The problems I was having stopped. So far so good.
                      Thanks for all input.

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                      • #12
                        This is one of the hardest shorts to find because you have wires that are buried under things you really can't or certainly don't want to remove to get to them. I think you probably made the best choice just replacing the wiring. Sounds like you solved your problem. Let us know if it returns or if you need further help. Good luck.

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