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Adsense Classic 1

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  • Somebody help me lol

    I have a lane that wont come on unless I hold down the motor start relay. The accelerator still doesn't work even with motor start relay held down. I totally rewired and replaced both relays in the accelerator control box and tested. I've eliminated all 5 control switches as well. I've also bypassed the jam micro switches. The transformer is good motor start relay is good, motor contactor is good. I'm totally stumped now.

  • #2
    How about the fuses? The low voltage fuse is the screw out one.
    Howard

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    • #3
      Do you have 24 volts at the coil of the MSR? If not, do you have 24 volts coming from the transformer (check at #6 & #9 on the low voltage terminal strip)? If you have voltage at the terminal strip, but not at the coil, then you've got a switch open somewhere, or possibly a bad cable.

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      • #4
        bypassing jam switches is never a good idea. If this lane worked properly before you rewired the Accel box, I would unplug your accel box from that lane and see if the lane turns on with out over riding anything
        If its still broken, guess it wasnt in the parts budget.

        Z

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        • #5
          I've tested both fuses with a multimeter and by plugging them into the next lane. I've jumped all the control switches.I hooked the rewired accelerator box up on another pair and it works. I only bypassed the jam switches to rule them out and only after I was 100% sure there was no jam. I haven't tested the transformer but I assume it's good since all the other low voltage functions are operational but I will test with multimeter Monday. Thanks for the input. I'll update Monday

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          • #6
            How about the masking unit switch?
            Howard

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            • #7
              I reversed the cannon plugs and everything works on the other lane but still nothing on 28 so I'm 100% sure my acc control box isn't the problem. I have 24v across 6 and 9. I jumped A and B on the 5 pin cannon plug. I have 0 across the coil of motor start relay

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              • #8
                I take it your motor start relay is NOT energising?

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                • #9
                  If your msr is NOT energising then do this:

                  Place one meter lead on TS2-9 and leave it there. Set meter to 24 VAC.

                  Use the other meter lead to test at the following points.

                  1) TS2-6 - 24VAC good. 0 VAC bad fuse or transformer possibly broken wire. You said you had this so let's move on.
                  2) TS2-5 - 24VAC good. 0 VAC mechanics switch problem
                  3) TS2-3 - 24VAC good. 0 VAC turret jamb switch problem
                  4) TS2-3 - 24VAC good. 0 VAC deck jamb switch problem
                  5) msr terminal G - 24VAC good. 0 VAC mask switch, managers control switch, scoring controller, tdm safety switch.

                  If you get to step 5 and still haven't found the problem, post back and we'll take you further. What type of tdm do you have?

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                  • #10
                    Oddly enough I am having the same issue, but on a pair of lanes. For some reason, both low voltage fuses have blown. I replaced both and they immediately blew again as soon as they were installed. Odd lane of the pair went down first, then about a week later, the even lane of the same pair went down as well. I am not sure what exactly has been replaced because I do not work at the center in the summer. I was told they've been down for about 2-3 weeks, and also told that the msr, contactor and transformer have all been replaced replaced. I came in today and found low voltage fuses blown. Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated!

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by exMech View Post
                      If your msr is NOT energising then do this:

                      Place one meter lead on TS2-9 and leave it there. Set meter to 24 VAC.

                      Use the other meter lead to test at the following points.

                      1) TS2-6 - 24VAC good. 0 VAC bad fuse or transformer possibly broken wire. You said you had this so let's move on.
                      2) TS2-5 - 24VAC good. 0 VAC mechanics switch problem
                      3) TS2-3 - 24VAC good. 0 VAC turret jamb switch problem
                      4) TS2-3 - 24VAC good. 0 VAC deck jamb switch problem
                      5) msr terminal G - 24VAC good. 0 VAC mask switch, managers control switch, scoring controller, tdm safety switch.

                      If you get to step 5 and still haven't found the problem, post back and we'll take you further. What type of tdm do you have?
                      Is this the same for a straight a machine with no TDM? Electronic triggering is control by BOSS MIU.

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                      • #12
                        First let me correct my post. In using cut and paste I didn't get number 4 changed. It should read TS2-2.

                        The wiring for the A and A2 is basically the same with few exceptions. There have been changes over the years so the above may not fit every machine exactly. The procedure is a simple troubleshooting 101 where you simply trace the electricity and see where it stops.

                        Referring to figure 1 below, if you measure voltage between TS2-6 and 9 then your transformer, fuse and wiring to these points is good otherwise you wouldn't have voltage at these points. So once you find voltage at these points you move on to another point. Since you know you have voltage at TS2-9, leaving one probe here eliminates an unknown. So on the drawing, if you follow the wire from TS2-6 you can follow it to the mechanics switch and on to TS2-5. If the wiring to this point is good and the mechanics switch is closed, the same voltage that was at TS2-6 should show up at TS2-5. This tells you the switch and wiring to that point is good. If the wire was broken or the switch was open you would not see the voltage at TS2-5. This would tell you you need to look between TS2-6 where you had voltage and TS2-5 where you didn't and see where you lost it.

                        You then apply the same logic to see if voltage you found at TS2-5 shows up at TS2-3 and so on and so on. You could have done the same thing by leaving a probe on TS2-6 and tracing the circuit from TS2-9. You would test the same components, just from the reverse order. This is preferred over parts swapping because you don't risk damaging new parts and you don't waste time swapping the parts. Once you understand how the circuit works then once you have the box open, you should be able to locate most faults general location is less than a minute.

                        Figure 2 below shows how to connect the TDM with a safety switch into the circuit. It shows removing the wire from the mechanics switch from TS2-5 and wiring the TDM into the circuit. You don't have to put it in at this point but if you follow the manufactures instructions this is where they show. It's important to know if you have these modifications because it can affect your test results. For example, if this TDM had been wired into the circuit and you did the previous procedure, a lack of voltage at TS2-5 could also result from a TDM not detecting a rake down condition. This would open the safety relay on the TDM board and break the circuit and would have nothing to do with the mechanics switch. Also if you are using automatic scoring, it's important to know where that ties in. Finally, there have been other safety schemes used over the years that you should know if you have them on your machines.

                        But if your using a TDM without the safety relay or no TDM at all, then your circuit is probably similar to what was posted with the exception of where the scoring ties in at.

                        If your having trouble with two machines then isolate the two machines and see if the problem goes away. This would indicate the problem is in the wiring external to the machines. To do this, start by disconnecting the ball return cycle wires. Simply unplug the two wire cannon plug from the top of each machines electrical box. Then unplug the three wire cannon plug from the top of each box. This time though, you will need to put a jumper into the receptacle on top of the electrical box (not the cable) to emulate the managers control switch. Turn the breaker off and place a wire jumper between terminals B and C on the machines receptacle. Now the machines are isolated from each other and when you turn the breakers on, they hopefully will function.

                        Let us know how it goes and we can help you track the problem based on what you find.
                        Attached Files

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                        • #13
                          Sorry for the delay. found the problem but I smoked the transformer in the process and I didn't have a spare, then classic sent me the wrong one so had to wait 4 extra days. It ended up being the thermal overload. thanks for all the input

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