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Machine not get out of 1st ball respot pins

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  • Machine not get out of 1st ball respot pins

    Hey guys, have a machine that will occasionally refuse to make 2nd ball. It just keeps picking up any standing pins, respots but stays in 1st ball.
    I know about the 1st/2nd ball lever on the "C" shaft, but it looks like the shaft itself isn't rotating.
    Manually switching to 2nd ball always fixes the issue but eventually it comes back.
    Any ideas what would cause the shaft to not rotate? I know it's controlled by deck height via detector rod.
    Thanks

  • #2
    Your problem most likely is related to the standing pins controller. When the machine is at 270 respotting pins, the height of the deck determines if the detector goes to to second ball or not. Refer to the image below. When the blocking surface on the detector disk is under the projection on the controller (circled items) then the detector is blocked from going into second ball and the "C" shaft won't rotate. When the standing pins controller is not blocked out, the standing pins selector is raised above the standing pins cam follower and the cam follower goes to the low dwell and the "C" shaft rotates with the machine going into second ball.

    Your problem is likely due to the detector rod adjustment being right on the edge of blocking or not blocking the controller out. The reason it sometimes does it and sometimes not probably has to do with the configuration of the pins left standing. If you have bad deck pads or an uneven machine deck then with some pin leaves the deck will go slightly lower when respotting pins causing the detector disk to over rotate slightly and the blocking surface to barely catch the projection on the pins controller. Other times, the pin configuration keeps the deck high enough to rotate the blocking surface out of the way just enough to clear the projection and the detector goes into second ball.

    Bottom line is the detector rod adjustment needs to be pushed up slightly, NOT TO MUCH, so the disk rotates the blocking surface out of the way of the projection. Ultimately you should check your deck for damaged/worn pads or unlevel machine deck. But pushing the detector rod up slightly though should get rid of the problem in the short term. Do this in very small 1/16 inch increments.
    Attached Files
    Last edited by exMech; 10-13-2018, 05:40 PM. Reason: Edit: uploaded wrong image.

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    • #3
      That's somewhere close to what I suspected thank you very much! It usually happens when 1 or 2 pins are still standing and I noticed the #10 pad was significantly more when than the rest.
      Awesome on telling me which way to adjust the rod and thank you for the lesson on the detector!

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      • #4
        Also, check the deck lift shaft bearings, make sure the bolts are tight. Check the Stabilizer arm and deck arm bearings also. After that, set a 1, 7 & 10 pin individually. Allow the moving deck to fill with 10 pins. Then start a cycle to see if it detects properly several times with each of the individual pins. The weight of the pins in the moving deck causes maximum twist of the deck to be sure it is detecting all standing pins properly.
        Everything has to be Somewhere !!

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        • #5
          As long as you're certain the 2nd ball selector isn't moving and the holding hook just isn't catching the deck post pin, I would also check the previous suggestions.
          Factory & Converted A-2 (US, Ger, Jap)
          Comscore ECT, Matrix & DuoHD
          Walker B, Sanction Standard, Original K, Flex Walker & Ikon
          Kegel C.A.T.S

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          • #6
            As far as I know the lane hasn't had any problems since I adjusted the D rod thanks exMech , and mickeygm , Kanga (James) for the help!

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            • #7
              I'm glad to see you were able to get thing's going. However, most components don't just come out of adjustment and little tweaks like this are necessary due to parts wearing somewhere. So when you get a few minutes, go back and look things over pretty well and see if you can find why it was necessary to make the adjustment. Chances are, if you don't locate the issue, it will show up again later as components continue to wear. Hopefully you can head off a major issue now instead of having it show up when you don't want it to. Murphy's law you know.

              Thanks for letting us know how it went.

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