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  • Sudden stops of cycle

    I'm having small problem with one lane,on rare occasions when ppl throw a strike and then machine stalls and does not set new pins (but points are calculated correctly),i mean machine is on but just doesn't set new pins,it's not a big deal to push a button and set new pins that way, or like last saturday, it was setting up new pins,rake just stopped in front of pins,machine was on all the time and again,i just pushed cycle button to get game going on, what would cause this "jamming" ?

  • #2
    Cycle solenoid could be on the way out.
    If you think my girlfriend can fight, you should see her box!

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    • #3
      Also try swapping your time delay module with machine beside it. See if problem moves. If it stays replace your trigger micro switches in the electrical box. If they are old and starting to fail they will work sometimes and not others.

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      • #4
        Is it not detecting the strike or failing to trigger? And this only happens on strikes?
        easy way to check is turn machine off in 1st ball. Clear all the pins from the deck, then turn back on and trigger the machine to see if it's detecting no standing pins.
        Or else it sounds like it's failing to trigger.
        Good luck

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        • #5
          Originally posted by MStakes View Post
          Is it not detecting the strike or failing to trigger? And this only happens on strikes?
          easy way to check is turn machine off in 1st ball. Clear all the pins from the deck, then turn back on and trigger the machine to see if it's detecting no standing pins.
          Or else it sounds like it's failing to trigger.
          Good luck
          It does detect strikes correctly, at least it shows so on the scoreboard.

          edit:i thought solenoid fires only once(when to start the cycle) and this is why i wonder why did the rake stop in front of the pins last saturday

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          • #6
            It doesn't really matter if it scores a strike on the scoring, This is a different function as to what the machine is doing. I am confused as to what your saying the machine is doing. Is is not starting a cycle at all or does it stop mid cycle? The machine doesn't know if it's a strike until after it makes the detection stroke. (Unless the scoring uses the NPS and kicks it to second ball for strikes)

            So a little more detail as to what is happening would be helpful.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by exMech View Post
              It doesn't really matter if it scores a strike on the scoring, This is a different function as to what the machine is doing. I am confused as to what your saying the machine is doing. Is is not starting a cycle at all or does it stop mid cycle? The machine doesn't know if it's a strike until after it makes the detection stroke. (Unless the scoring uses the NPS and kicks it to second ball for strikes)

              So a little more detail as to what is happening would be helpful.
              Sure, so both of these things are happening, after strike (this has happened few times) it just doesn't set up new pins and one time it stopped mid cycle and in both of these cases pressing the reset button clears the problem. Could this be 2 different problems ? we have ball sensors that (should) trigger the cycle.

              EDIT: So it doesn't start to cycle at all what comes to the first thing i mentioned.

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              • #8
                If it's not starting a cycle then this would have nothing to do if it's a strike or not at the machine doesn't know until after it starts a cycle whether it's a strike or not. So if it's not starting a cycle when it's a strike then that could just be a coincidence. In that case I would look at the cycle solenoid and see if it is triggering when this happens. If it doesn't happen very often this could require camping on the machine until you catch it misbehaving. What to look for would be different if it is electrical i.e. not triggering the cycle solenoid or mechanical i.e. triggers solenoid but machine doesn't start cycle.

                As to stopping mid cycle it would depend where exactly the machine stops. If it's after the 180 stop (sweep at back of deck) and 0 as you kind of described above then I would look at the clutch adjustment. The machine shouldn't stop after 180 so if it does, then there is probably something wrong with the clutch. If the clutch is jamming up, this could also lead to your first complaint as well so I would make sure the clutch is moving freely and is adjusted properly.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by exMech View Post
                  If it's not starting a cycle then this would have nothing to do if it's a strike or not at the machine doesn't know until after it starts a cycle whether it's a strike or not. So if it's not starting a cycle when it's a strike then that could just be a coincidence. In that case I would look at the cycle solenoid and see if it is triggering when this happens. If it doesn't happen very often this could require camping on the machine until you catch it misbehaving. What to look for would be different if it is electrical i.e. not triggering the cycle solenoid or mechanical i.e. triggers solenoid but machine doesn't start cycle.

                  As to stopping mid cycle it would depend where exactly the machine stops. If it's after the 180 stop (sweep at back of deck) and 0 as you kind of described above then I would look at the clutch adjustment. The machine shouldn't stop after 180 so if it does, then there is probably something wrong with the clutch. If the clutch is jamming up, this could also lead to your first complaint as well so I would make sure the clutch is moving freely and is adjusted properly.
                  Thanks for the tip exMech, well this a problem that occurs maybe once or twice in a month so it's not really that bad thing but i do have couple new solenoids so i could swap it to see if it makes any difference, is there anything special i need to know when changing the solenoid ?

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                  • #10
                    There isn't much to swapping out the solenoid. The main thing is to make sure you get it adjusted properly. You want to make sure the plunger is fully seated in the solenoid when the solenoid is activated. Failure to do so can lead to premature failure of the solenoid. See instructions below.

                    With that being said, given this only happens a couple times a month would make it less likely that it's the solenoid itself. Depending on how many lines the machine sees in a month, this could be a small error in the total number of times it triggers and could be the fault of many things. But you can certainly change it and see what happens.

                    I would definitely look at the clutch though and make sure it's up to spec and working properly.
                    Attached Files

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Jani t View Post

                      Thanks for the tip exMech.... but i do have couple new solenoids so i could swap it to see if it makes any difference, is there anything special i need to know when changing the solenoid ?
                      Also, check the voltage of the solenoid your replacing first and make sure the new ones are rated for the same!
                      What I mean is in our center, Japanese A-2s use 208-220 vAC to trigger the solenoid. While American A-2s only need 110 vAC. So its important you use the correct part as one won't receive enough to trigger or you could burn it up.
                      Next time the lane stalls on you try to check to see where in the cycle it's stopped. 0°-360°. Otherwise ExMech have allot of places to start checking.

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                      • #12
                        I'm assuming that your rake drops on ball impact? That is why I suggested the cycle solenoid since it would fit the symptoms you describe.

                        Now I see that your machine in stopping at other points. The gearbox clutch should only disengage at 90 degree intervals. When the machine stops you want to look to see if in fact that is what happened. You can tell by the clutch lever at the top of the gearbox. (the part that goes up and down when the machine is cycling) When the machine wants to stop it moves an arm underneath the clutch lever which prevents it from dropping at the 90 degree interval point. It would seem that this is the case because pressing the reset button gets it going again.

                        If you machine is stopping at weird points then you have a completely different set of problems to look at.


                        If you think my girlfriend can fight, you should see her box!

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                        • #13
                          okay but i just realized that i really can't do nothing cause there's nice and thick concrete wall on the left side of the machine now where's my pick-axe so i can start smashing my way

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                          • #14
                            Looks like a Japanese A-2. Yeah that going to be a tight squeeze for sure I'd hire and train a small child if it was me

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Jani t View Post
                              okay but i just realized that i really can't do nothing cause there's nice and thick concrete wall on the left side of the machine now where's my pick-axe so i can start smashing my way
                              Very clean looking machine

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