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Removing Time delays and still have pit cushion triggering

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  • Removing Time delays and still have pit cushion triggering

    Hey guys. I have a private 2 lane setup with A2s. I wanted to know if there was a way to do away with the time delays yet remain with pit cushion triggering. Obviously the reset button is not a problem as that can be going through a simple relay, but the problem with the cushion triggering is that when its open, the solenoid will remain energized until the rake goes up and turns it off. Probably not good to have the solenoid energized for that long huh? I had one time delay go bad and replaced it with one off the other pinsetter to make sure it was the culprit, but after thinking about it, if there was a way to do away with them completely that would be great. There isn't any scoring hooked up as its just a practice center for now. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!

  • #2
    I don't know if that's a good idea but it's not impossible. The purpose of the TDM is to give any wobbling pins time to fall over. But you said there's no scoring system yet so it's not important. There's a electrical chapter in the first section of the Brunswick Pinsetter service manual that will explain more than I can. And there's also very helpful forums on this site discussing replacing the TDM but haven't seen anyone trying to remove it completely.
    Good luck!

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    • #3
      I use these for all kinds of things.

      http://www.airotronics.com/products-delayonmake.php

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      • #4
        Several bowltech members have eliminated them so you might be able to buy time delay modules cheap with a bowltech classified.

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        • #5
          Anyone who has eliminated the TDM from their pinsetters has allowed the scoring system to cycle the pinsetter. I can't think of a good reason to do what you want to do. If it's a small practice center, TDM failures won't be common. I think your solution may be worse than the problem. If you're intent on doing this, there was a conversion that used cable triggering to actuate the starter bell crank through the dropping of the rake. Finding used cable triggering may be worth looking into, but used TDM's on the cheap would be the best option IMHO.

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          • #6
            IMO, there are certainly better ways of eliminating the tdm boards or you could simply repair the ones you have. With the cost of infrared (ir) detectors (not sold by bowling suppliers) being so low, you could certainly set up an ir ball detection system for probably $30 - $40 for the two lanes. This would include a micro controller interface which you could then use as a better tdm. However, your question was pretty specific so let's talk about your question.

            You can do what you want pretty cheaply and very easily. You will need a relay which you already know to tie into the reset switches. You can use this same relay to trigger from the rake drop which is how I am assuming you are triggering now with the rake drop tied into the tdm. All you need is one more switch. You would mount this switch so it is triggered once per cycle by the one-to-one. So lets say you mount the switch to be actuated by a protrusion on the outside face of the rake cam. Set it so the switch is closed when the machine is at 0 degrees and only at (or near) 0 degrees.

            You now wire the switch in series with the rake drop switch and tie it into the new relay parallel to the other reset switches. You now have a condition where two conditions are required to trigger the reset solenoid from the ball impact.

            1) the machine has to be at 0 degrees
            2) the rake has to be in the down position (doesn't affect the reset buttons)

            With the machine at 0 degrees waiting for ball delivery, the solenoid is off because the rake is up. Once the rake is dropped by the ball impact, the two conditions are met. The machine is at 0 (condition 1) and the rake is down (condition 2). The solenoid will now fire.

            Once the machine starts to cycle, the new switch on the rake cam will open and the power to the solenoid relay will be cut off. Because this switch stays off until the machine is back at 0 the solenoid will be off while the machine completes it's cycle even though the rake is down. This eliminates the extended solenoid on time you were correctly concerned about.

            Prior to the switch on the rake cam closing again at 0, the rake cam raises the rake so the rake down signal is lost and the solenoid won't fire when the machine returns to 0 and closes the new switch on the rake cam once again. The solenoid will not energise until the next ball impact drops the rake again to start the entire process over.

            So besides the new relay, which you already planned on getting, the only other thing you need is a small switch and a bracket to mount it with. Easy construction and very cheap. If you would like further help on this, please don't hesitate to ask. If the circuit operation is unclear just let me know and I can draw the circuit out for you. If you want to discuss other options, don't hesitate to ask.

            Good luck.

            Oh, by the way, I wish I had two bowling lanes in my basement.

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            • #7
              Thanks exMech! That sounds like something I would be completely interested in doing. Do you recommend any type of or style of switches? Also, a rough schematic would be awesome if you wouldn’t mind. I appreciate all the help!!

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              • #8
                I've never had TDMs on the 3000 serial # machines. We had Cable Triggering from Brunswick as part of the JetBack Conversion with the old style Cycle & Motor Start relays. Cable triggering was removed when auto scoring was installed. Like exM stated, their are many ways to skin this cat. Pretty much wide open. Here are my schematics and pics of components I used. Be careful though as I made a few mods to the box, had to do a 1/2 ball light mod, (TS2-4), to make the Qubica Scoring work correctly and replaced the old rectifier with Bridge Rectifier. Good luck.

                ALL Files Scanned with MALWAREBYTES PREMIUM Version 3.6.1.2711 and AVAST INTERNET SECURITY Version 18.6.2349

                Contactor 3 C.jpgContactor 6 C.jpgContactor 10 C.jpg

                Schematic Contactor 2 FUJI Rev 4.pdf Schematic LV WIRE Config 1.pdf Schematic Scoring.pdf
                Attached Files
                Everything has to be Somewhere !!

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                • #9
                  Get used scoring clusters and wire the zero switch, normally open, in series with your rake down switch. You will have no delay upon ball impact, but it sounds like this is not really a concern. If it is, a delay on relay will fix your problem.
                  <--- Start 'em young!

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