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Ball Return issues on Brunswick 2000 units.

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  • Ball Return issues on Brunswick 2000 units.

    have a couple questions that we seem to have some relay issues and trying to under stand where my issue might be.

    First have several pairs where i have to have both lanes to make the ball return work, if only one lane on it doesn't turn ball return on.

    Have found a blown relay on one pair or relay act stuck open., but don't want to just put in a new one until i understand where i should be looking for the problem. The relay is a MidTex 157 230200 10amp.

    hope that helps and someone can steer me to where to start looking.

    Thank you

    Dan

  • #2
    Did this just suddenly start on an old installation or is this a new install?

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    • #3
      we brought the place a couple years ago and a couple pair always did it and now have a new pair doing it. have more time to be here and trying to get fixed...

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      • #4
        It sounds like they have the relays wired in series rather than parallel. Are you familiar with electrical?

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        • #5
          a little , but that is what I am looking for to be able to tell my tech/elcrical what to look for so hopfully they can get it done fast and save some time. so is there any wiring coming from the pinsetter to ball return or would what you are saying all be under approaches in the box there??

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          • #6
            I am starting to think we have a short of some sort as I have just talked with some others that worked here, and they have replace the relay's only to have them go bad. so now have to chase that issue on each lane. we are currently using a 11 pin MidTex 157 230200 relay. so don't know if all 11 are being used. so have to start on those connectors and chase each wire. damm. this could be a big project...

            any easy tips??

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            • #7
              What pinsetter do you have? Is there a transformer in the box at the power lift?

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              • #8
                They are brunwick Pinsetters, and attached a photo of the box under each ball return...

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                • #9
                  Oh wow, You have got a mess and kinda dangerous.

                  It looks like you have a transformer in the bottom of the box but based on the connectors all being disconnected I'm not sure it's being used. What voltage fans are on the hand dryers.

                  Fortunately, the circuit is fairly simple. I would recommend you start by removing all the wires that don't go anywhere. Attached is a diagram of a basic ball lift box from the technical section.

                  Basically what happens is when the pinsetter is turned on, the 24 volts is sent to one of the relays in the box you have there. You have two relays, one for the left lane and one for the right. The high side of the voltage to the relay is wired in parallel going to the motor. When either relay is energized, the motor turns on. I have included a quick drawing below that shows parallel vs serial wiring of switches. With serial you can see that both switches need to be on for the current to flow through the circuit. With parallel, either circuit can be on and the current will follow the closed switch.

                  Rather than trying to figure out what's wrong, I think we should just make it right. This will take a little doing but we can walk you through it if your up to it. If you don't think you want to tackle it then I would recommend hiring an electrician and having them wire it up using the diagram below.
                  Attached Files

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                  • #10
                    If i under standing you we need to pull all un-used and should only have 24 coming from back when pinsetter is on and then re do or confirm the wiring that is there. it might be something i have to have electrical guy coming in as if those connection pads where the relay plugs in need to be replace or one of the receivers is bad will need someone that can fix those.

                    Should there be anything else under there that we need to worrry about? also will need hand dryer fan volt correct..

                    this should be a big help...

                    thank you

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                    • #11
                      It's hard to see actually what you have going on here because of the excess wires that are just clipped and left hanging. Also, a lot of these wires go into plugs that are no longer being used and taking up space. I can see live wires that go to the plugs but go no further. These need to be removed so someone doesn't reach into the box and accidentally touch one of these getting a shock.

                      Once things are cleaned up you should only have 4 low voltage wires coming into the box (2 from each machine). One pair of each of these will go to the coil of each relay.

                      You will have two wires plus ground coming into the box providing power for the motor. The line and neutral (or line and line if 240 volt) will each go to a contact of the relay. It will parallel to the other relay.

                      You will have two wires plus ground leaving the box to the motor. Similarly they will connect to the other contacts of the relay.

                      So when all the other wires are removed you will only have 4 small low voltage wires and 4 larger high voltage wires. Your box will be clean and safe and easier to manage.

                      This is pretty easy to wire and if your mechanic works in the machines electrical box he should be able to fix this with a little guidance.

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                      • #12
                        didn't know there was 240 there, and have to clean up as that could really injury someone not good.

                        I will talk with my guys in morning and see how we get going on this, and it might be a pair at a time..

                        Thank you for your help. it's great to have people willing to help out...

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                        • #13
                          Not sure if you have 120 or 240. You can look at your motor and see what it says or just measure the voltage coming in. You have six wires up by the relays. This could be power in, power out to motor and power out to hand dryer. I can't say for sure at this point because they go down and get caught up in the rat's next. I can't tell exactly where the low voltage is coming in but it looks like it might be in the lower corner opposite these.

                          Glad to help out. Just let us know what you need.

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                          • #14
                            Also you will need to get the voltage, amps and horsepower rating off the motor so we can see if the relays are rated for those motors. If not that could be why you are burning up relays.

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                            • #15
                              Good point on the motors and gettting the right relay for those. we just put the same ones in..which makes sense if they are wrong..

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