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The mystery of the 80000 serial number pinsetters

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  • #31
    Re: The mystery of the 80000 serial number pinsett

    Roscoe, This time it is YOU who is mistaken. My records are direct from Brunswick. Per customer request to reduce cycle time, the converted A-2 came out in 1960 as a conversion kit, The FACTORY A-2 pinsetter was built in the new "A-2" Factory built in 1961 on the South side of Laketon Ave. The Jet Back conversion came out in 1965 to slow the pinsetter as the A-2 speed was causing a multitude of parts damage as well as the fact that some of the original design of cam followers and other linkages could not respond properly to the A-2 speed. The ball accelerator was replaced by the booster to slow the ball from 60mph to 15mph. And Yes, the ball booster was and is still operating on many A-2 return tracks. In 1973, a Mini Kit was made available for centers wanting to up-grade their excisting "A's" using their own staff for the conversion.
    "Efficiency is, doing better what is already being done!"
    Pinsetter Technical Services 214-505-7663

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    • #32
      Re: The mystery of the 80000 serial number pinsett

      People do some illogical things, but it doesn't seem logical to replace an accelerator with a booster when replacing the accelerator motor and/or pulley will slow an accelerator to most any speed you want. When most of us talk about slowing down an A2, we're talking about replacing the pinsetter motor pulley.

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      • #33
        Re: The mystery of the 80000 serial number pinsett

        Badwrench, I agree with you, but as we all know, there are many things that are changed and/or modified that to many of us just don't make sense. I replaced the 3250 rpm accelerator motors with 1725 rpm motors and have reduced ball damages and saved hundreds of dollars on urethane front lift tracks. Personally, I do not like the boosters!
        "Efficiency is, doing better what is already being done!"
        Pinsetter Technical Services 214-505-7663

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        • #34
          Re: The mystery of the 80000 serial number pinsett

          Have you found a cheap 1725 motor with a manual thermal overload for that? I'm using Grainger 6K361 3450 motors partly because I can't find a 1725 cheap. I'm down to 1 11/16 pulleys now, but I still have the old 2 23/32 pulleys and belts.

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          • #35
            Re: The mystery of the 80000 serial number pinsett

            Badwrench, the Grainger 5K193 we use, has the Auto Thermal protection. The price is $188 - $211 depending on your account status (and location) with Grainger. Good luck!
            "Efficiency is, doing better what is already being done!"
            Pinsetter Technical Services 214-505-7663

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            • #36
              Re: The mystery of the 80000 serial number pinsett

              Nope. I can't buy one with an automatic thermal overload. A motor that can start when it feels like it is too much of a risk. I have candlepin as well as the Brunswicks and those have motor starters, manual thermal overloads with switches that mount remotely. If an OSHA inspector ever saw an automatic thermal on pinsetting equipment, he would have kittens.

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              • #37
                Re: The mystery of the 80000 serial number pinsett

                Here's what I know about serial numbers:
                I worked in the Chicago area for many years for a pinsetter service company. We saw many different pinsetters with many different numbers. One house had (and still has) 12 Model "A" machines that were installed in 1966. The serial numbers are 86000, and 100% model A.

                Another 8 lane house had the first "official" OTIS proto-types. these 8 machines had no paint at all, except for parts that had been replaced. they were installed by Otis (which was owned by Brunswick at the time) in 1955. the Brunswick installer who did the installation was a friend of mine until he passed away in 1978. the serial numbers are P01 through P08. the original Brunswick/Otis service records indicate that these 8 were the only "official" proto-types prior to the "Jersey" #1 installation.

                A-2 conversions began in the early 60's. Jet-Backs were indeed a cheap alternative to the A-2 conv. the first Jet's had mechanical cable triggering. the later Jet's came with the TD Module.

                The Jap machines were first assembled in Japan with all-american parts (except for the electrical box)!! some serial numbers were modified with the "J" stamp in front of the serial number. HERE's the big confusing thing:: all jap assembled US machines were all factory A-2's with die-cast gear boxes, moving decks and scotch-yokes. they started with serial number 10000, and about 100000 were "assembled in japan" with US parts. some had been re-stamped with the "J" but some WERE NOT! this may explain why we find "double" serial numbers that may appear to be american A-2's!!! Later on, the Japs produced their own machines without the die-cast gearboxes, moving decks etc. the only thing that remained "american" style was the pit frames without a quick release. ALL Jap machines with or without american parts had a Jap electrical box. ALL Jap machines that were COMPLETELY made in Japan had the familiar "J" in front of all serial numbers and had sand-cast gearboxes and moving decks. the highest Jap serial number I have ever seen is J-190000, with sand-castings.

                The FIRST American factory A-2 started with 90000. I have seen serial number 90300 in the Chicago area. they were installed in 1961. During the 1960's, Brunswick offered new "A" or "A-2" machines for different price packages. Many "A-2"'s were installed BEFORE the last of the "A" machines which ended with 89900.
                I have also seen American Made Factory A-2's with serial numbers as high as 180000, contrary to many people who think only 110000 was the last machine. The later American factory A-2's had die-cast everything, including a die-cast turret frame! lot's of those cracked like crazy. Most American machines above 108000 had the 27:1 gear ratio and a real small motor pulley set and no scotch-yoke, but not all did, some were installed with conventional large A-2 pulleys. Another reason for confusion is that Brunswick was "contracting" out to different vendors for parts and assemblies and INSTALLATIONS!...that led to variations and possible serial number conflicts.

                All this is first hand information from me or my friend who did many mid-west installations for Brunswick and Otis.
                Hope this info helps clear the air about serial numbers!
                p.s. the owner of the "P" proto-types said he had spinning ball returns the very first night of public bowling in 1955 !!

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                • #38
                  Re: The mystery of the 80000 serial number pinsett

                  Originally posted by George_Koren
                  Another 8 lane house had the first "official" OTIS proto-types. these 8 machines had no paint at all, except for parts that had been replaced. they were installed by Otis (which was owned by Brunswick at the time) in 1955. the Brunswick installer who did the installation was a friend of mine until he passed away in 1978. the serial numbers are P01 through P08. the original Brunswick/Otis service records indicate that these 8 were the only "official" proto-types prior to the "Jersey" #1 installation.
                  Do you think this center still exists...or at least the machines?
                  TSM & TSM Training Development
                  Main Event Entertainment
                  480-620-6758 for help or information

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                  • #39
                    Re: The mystery of the 80000 serial number pinsett

                    Originally posted by George_Koren
                    they were installed by Otis (which was owned by Brunswick at the time) in 1955.
                    Now that, I am not too sure of. The books I have on the history of Brunswick make no mention of them owning Otis. They do mention that the pinsetter was made by Otis due to lack of funds. The money for the project came from Murray Corp. They produced a workable pinsetter ready for field testing in 1954. These could have been the prototype machines you mentioned. Then on April 10, 1956 they debuted the first official machines. But no where does it mention that they owned Otis. These books are all about the history of Brunswick Corp...and I think that kind of aquisition would be pretty big.

                    I did stumble on the year that Nippon Brunswick came about...1960. It was a joint venture with Mitsui & Co. Ltd. This could be when they started manufacturing machines using American parts and then later started making their own parts. Could be where the two different versions of the Japanese machine comes from. It may have taken them a few years to get everything going. Could be some of the serial numbers might line up as Jim mentioned since they did start that early.

                    Finding information on the Japanese boom is difficult at best and many of us have ideas as to what happened back then. Some differ, but maybe in time we can nail this down. But then again, maybe not as it may be that there is no documentation as to what happened back then. I have asked a friend if he can use his contancts in Brunswick to "dig" up any info...but so far no luck. This stuff just may not exist anywhere.
                    TSM & TSM Training Development
                    Main Event Entertainment
                    480-620-6758 for help or information

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                    • #40
                      Re: The mystery of the 80000 serial number pinsett

                      Badwrench,
                      Oh well, I tried. We haven't had a problem as long as they are wired for 220v, the amperage draw is less.
                      "Efficiency is, doing better what is already being done!"
                      Pinsetter Technical Services 214-505-7663

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: The mystery of the 80000 serial number pinsett

                        It's not the amperage. A manual thermal can't restart after tripping until a person pushes a button or flips a switch. An automatic thermal will restart the motor as soon as it cools. I can be sure I will always turn a motor off to clear a jam, but I can't be sure of that for everyone who will work on these machines until that motor wears out.

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                        • #42
                          Re: The mystery of the 80000 serial number pinsett

                          KINGPIN,
                          Are you stating that the Jetback was a conversion for the Factory A-2 ? Please clear up my confusion .Thanks, Mark
                          There is light at the end of the tunnel - just be sure it is not a train.

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                          • #43
                            Re: The mystery of the 80000 serial number pinsett

                            Steve,
                            you are correct about OTIS. Brunswick only owned the PINSETTER operation of OTIS at the time, not all of OTIS. It was a joint venture between Otis Elevator Co. and Brunswick-Balke-Collender...

                            "Brunswick Corp" as we know it today, was formed in the early 60's. Maybe this is why the name "Otis" never showed up on any of the machines, as Brunswick took full control in 1963. Also, Brunswick engineers began re-designing everything soon after the "Otis" machines were in production. Maybe that's why we saw such a big difference in a short time span. For example: look at a machine with a 10000 number and compare it to a 90000, yet they were both produced within a few short years of each other.

                            I remember seeing the original installation records from the 8 proto-types. The pages were full of references to "Brunswick-Otis". My friend told me he was employed by "Brunswick-Otis", at least that's what the paychecks said.
                            He later was employed by "Brunswick Corp" for installations.
                            I can't remember the house name or town...it was in the Chicago suburbs and may very well still be in business. I was in the place maybe a half dozen times for repairs. the family that owned it did a good job of maintenance.

                            And, the real confusing thing about the Jap assembly with American parts is that Brunswick was duplicating serial numbers for export because the Jap assemblers were supposed to stamp a "J" on everything but they missed some as we now know.

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                            • #44
                              Re: The mystery of the 80000 serial number pinsett

                              Ewen,
                              Yes! The "A-2" version (both the 1960 conversion and the factory model) were BEFORE the 1965 Jet Back conversion package was conceived. It was originaly designed to slow the A-2 but was so popular, mechanics used it to speed up the A's without going all the way to the A-2 speed.

                              Badwrench,
                              I agree with you. You asked what Grainger motor I used as replacement and this is the one. I don't know of the Grainger motor for this application with a manual overload button. Maybe someone else does. Usually the only reason the overload on the accelerator motor would trip is when the big belt jams. Any of my mechanics who would not even think about unplugging the power before setting the belt, surely would not be with me long. But I do agree, none of us can be sure all our mechanics will follow protocal. The reason I mentioned amperage, is because the motor operates at a cooler temperature with higher voltage, thus lasts longer.
                              "Efficiency is, doing better what is already being done!"
                              Pinsetter Technical Services 214-505-7663

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: The mystery of the 80000 serial number pinsett

                                Well, I do know that all of the machines I do have are Jetback converted if 90000 was the start of the factory A2 then this whole thing makes sense. I couldnt see them downgrading an A2 to Jetback, it would be a waste of time. plus, all of our machines have overtravel which tells me they had to have been A's first.

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