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The mystery of the 80000 serial number pinsetters

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  • jba2mech
    started a topic The mystery of the 80000 serial number pinsetters

    The mystery of the 80000 serial number pinsetters

    In another post I had mentioned that The center im currently at has 10 brunswick machines lanes 13-22 that are in the 80000 serial number with 82420 being the newest of the bunch, according to a sheet brunswick says these machines should be factory A2's however, These machines are Jetbacks, They have the A2 style rake sweep links, but they have lowering links and I would imagine they were converted some time in the 60's. Goofier yet this house was added on. Originally it had 8 lanes and then expanded to 32 total. I havent quite figured out when this place was built. 13-20 now were the original 8 lanes. 21-22 have serial numbers that are close to the others less than a year apart. So its hard to tell if there was other equipment installed and then torn out before these machines were installed. But still yet more interesting is why these machines aren't A2's and instead are Jetbacks. Anyone have any ideas?, perhaps someone from brunswick may have some inside info?

  • A2-Ace
    replied
    Re: The mystery of the 80000 serial number pinsett

    Hey Steve, how are you.
    I will post a topc in general forum to update all my BT friends as to my resent activities.

    but it's good to be back and see (type at) all you guys again.

    Leave a comment:


  • Steve Stafford (JBEES)
    replied
    Re: The mystery of the 80000 serial number pinsett

    Bruce...good to see you back. What have you been up to lately?

    Leave a comment:


  • A2-Ace
    replied
    Re: The mystery of the 80000 serial number pinsett

    EXELLENT INFO George_Koren!!!!

    I have been looking for detailed info on this subject for years, and it is GREAT to get first hand knowledge from someone who was there in the early days of the Brunswick pinsetters.

    Your knowledge is greatly appreciated, and valued.

    Please post more info if you can, and any documentation of any kind that you can scan in and email or post would be fantastic!!

    Thanks for contributing your knowledge to BowlTech.
    Bruce

    Leave a comment:


  • A24me
    replied
    Re: The mystery of the 80000 serial number pinsett

    I believe you are correct as the factory A2 series looks to start at 90K. It is possible that it wasn't until the 93,002 that it was being included on all factory produced pinsetters, so from 90K through 93K it could be hit and miss. Hard to say without being involved on the assembly line, but I have to agree I thought that notation was strange. Just wanted to pass along all of what I found.

    Leave a comment:


  • nirvana04
    replied
    Re: The mystery of the 80000 serial number pinsett

    Originally posted by A24me
    OK, this is the info I've been able to find. In my 1971 parts book you can go to pages 34 (dated Jan. 69) and 35 (picture of the scotch yoke breakdown dated Oct. 67) it lists a Deck Lift Hook Cam 12-100831 for machines 90,000 and up-A2, or a 12-100387 Cam for machines prior to 90,000-A. Also page 143 says that the gear drive cross conveyor drive set-up was for 93,002 and up or Sept 1968 and on. I also have the original 60's green paperback A2 Service Manual that shows the cross conveyor gear drive and scotch yoke in the illustrations. Hope this info helps.
    That 93,002 thing isn't accurate. I got 10 factory A-2's in the 91,000 series with the gear drive set up.

    Leave a comment:


  • A24me
    replied
    Re: The mystery of the 80000 serial number pinsett

    OK, this is the info I've been able to find. In my 1971 parts book you can go to pages 34 (dated Jan. 69) and 35 (picture of the scotch yoke breakdown dated Oct. 67) it lists a Deck Lift Hook Cam 12-100831 for machines 90,000 and up-A2, or a 12-100387 Cam for machines prior to 90,000-A. Also page 143 says that the gear drive cross conveyor drive set-up was for 93,002 and up or Sept 1968 and on. I also have the original 60's green paperback A2 Service Manual that shows the cross conveyor gear drive and scotch yoke in the illustrations. Hope this info helps.

    Leave a comment:


  • A24me
    replied
    Re: The mystery of the 80000 serial number pinsett

    After thinking on it a bit, it would appear that it was during the 80,000-89,999 production runs is when the A-2 field conversions of still factory produced and prior-purchased A versions began, and it took Brunswick from 1962 to 1967 to facilitate a "Factory"-offered version. Appears to have been done on the 5 year plan to both key-up for full factory A-2 production as well as test the waters to see how hot the A-2 version would be. The Jet-Back would appear an "A-only" conversion to not only improve some areas of the machines basic functions, but to speed up ball returns. My gravity-return A's were good, but a booster would've been a definite improvement in some peoples eyes.

    Leave a comment:


  • Steve Stafford (JBEES)
    replied
    Re: The mystery of the 80000 serial number pinsett

    Originally posted by SoCalTom
    On some imported (to the US) models, the motor pulley had a larger motor to jackshaft pulley, which made the back-ends run faster. This was done to speed up the ball return to the bowler, and get the pit conveyor to run faster; however, it had major drawbacks. Parts breakage increased from the increased speed, such as pit conveyor mounts and gearbox linkage.
    Tom...these pulleys you are speaking of were installed in the host country because they run 50HZ there instead of 60HZ. It kept the speed exactly the same as their US counterpart by using this oversized pulley. If they were brought into the states, the pulleys should have been changed to the 60HZ version. Anyone not changing the pulley size was only trying to save a dime...but ended up costing themselves in repairs farther down the line.

    Leave a comment:


  • Steve Stafford (JBEES)
    replied
    Re: The mystery of the 80000 serial number pinsett

    Just spoke with a mechanic that has 81000 serial number machines and they are factory A's. Go figure.

    Leave a comment:


  • PJ
    replied
    Re: The mystery of the 80000 serial number pinsett

    Jetback, also some had cable triggering. PJ

    Leave a comment:


  • SoCalTom
    replied
    Re: The mystery of the 80000 serial number pinsett

    Originally posted by ewen
    I was also under the impression that the jetback was a conversion for the A
    Jetbacks were a conversion of the model "A" pinsetters. The conversion kept a lot of "A" parts, and added a few more, like ball boosters. Also Jetback gearbox speed was increased. Also, the pit cushion linkage was changed out to replace the model A "hockey stick." A "shotgun" was added to improve triggering. A Jetback conversion resembled an A-2.

    Factory A-2s came equipped with a scotch yoke; while field conversions left the lowering links in place. Also, the scissor/moving deck cam was changed to give more stability to the pins when it spotted a full set to the lane. On some imported (to the US) models, the motor pulley had a larger motor to jackshaft pulley, which made the back-ends run faster. This was done to speed up the ball return to the bowler, and get the pit conveyor to run faster; however, it had major drawbacks. Parts breakage increased from the increased speed, such as pit conveyor mounts and gearbox linkage.

    Most centers are slowing down the pinsetters, replacing the current motor pulley to the old model "A" pulley. It saves wear on the parts, while keeping the ball return speed. The myth of slowing down the pinsetter slows the game is false. With everything else remaining the same, slowing the gearbox does not slow down the ball return speed. It still takes about 15 seconds from the time the ball hits the pins until it reappears in the power lift. In that time, the pinsetter has cycled completely, even running at "A" speed.

    Leave a comment:


  • House
    replied
    Re: The mystery of the 80000 serial number pinsett

    this thread is def explaining why it says in the parts
    catalog "for model A", "for converted A-2", "A-2 with scotch yoke", and <u>"A-2 WITHOUT scotch yoke"</u>. keep it coming, you got me interested...

    Leave a comment:


  • Stevo
    replied
    Re: The mystery of the 80000 serial number pinsett

    the center i just left has 12 lanes of converted a2s with jap electrical, not sure about the s/n's, ill check when i get the chance.

    Leave a comment:


  • A24me
    replied
    Re: The mystery of the 80000 serial number pinsett

    Sorry to revive an old, but good topic. The center I'm working at now has machines with 74,000-85,000 numbered turret frames,x-conveyor plates, and decks, but mostly 54,000 numbered GB's and detectors. They also have applied Brunswick Automatic Pinsetter with A2 Conversion tags on the rear shields. None of these have scotch yokes, and I took a look at my 1971 Brunswick Green Parts Catalog and it seems to define some lowering link/scotch yoke parts in the 2:1 area as before or after 90,000. From my observations it looks as though 80,000-90,000 were A2 conversions, while 90,000 and up were Factory versions. Just wanted to add this bit of info.

    Leave a comment:

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