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  • motor brakes question

    hi all...I have owned this place for a year and a half now, learning a lot as I go...currently finding a couple sweep motors coasting...found a broken leather strap, that was installed to rub against the drive shaft, thus reducing coasting...upon further inspection, most if not all of the motors have this setup going...is this common practice? I would prefer to make them work the way they were intended...any input is greatly appreciated...amf 8230 with zot chassis...thanks!

  • #2
    The straps are common practice if you want to save a lot of labor time. If you want to get them to stop coasting without the straps you'll need to do 2 things. First you want to make sure the wiring for regenerative braking is all good. This includes the wires in the motor stator itself and the wiring in the plug all the way to the chassis. I've never used Zot chassis so I'm not sure if they have regular motor contactors? But if they do, then bad lower contacts on those can also cause coasting.

    Second, a lot of motor coasting is do to the gearboxes being too loose. If you have the motor on the bench with the stator removed, spin the rotor as hard as you can with your hand. If it spins more than 2 turns then it is too loose. To fix it you have to take the gearbox apart and remove shims to make it tighter. You want to try to remove an equal amount of shims from each side if possible to keep the brass gear centered on the worm gear. You have to tighten it up and test it each time you remove a shim. I like to set it so it turns about 1 to 1-1\2 times before stopping when spun by hand. Don't get it tighter than that or you'll have too much pressure on the bearings and brass gear which will eat your gearbox up pretty fast.

    If you take the gearboxes apart make 100% sure you get the keyways on both shafts level with each other when you put it back together or your sweep/table won't run straight. Also, clean & seal all surfaces with a good gasket maker to prevent oil leaks.

    Hope that helps.
    Experience: Currently Help Maintain 44 82-30s and 50 82-70s.

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    • #3
      A few more tips when taking gearboxes apart to tighten them up:

      1. When checking the tightness after removing shims, you don't need to put the entire thing back together, you only need to tighten the 2 pieces that hold the bearings, you don't need to put the outer housings with the shafts/planetary gears on until you are done.

      2. Even if you think the tightness seems correct, move the rotor slowly by hand to see if you feel any binding or roughness. If you do, you may have to add a shim back in to make it run more smoothly.

      3. Be very careful with the shims and remove them slowly trying not to break them because they don't make/sell them anymore.

      4. When trying to level the keyways when putting the outer housings back on, actually use a small level (very small, like 2" to 3" long) because eye-balling it doesn't always work. Assemble one side completely and then spin the rotor to get the keyway on that side level. Then you can use the level on the other side as you try to find the right tooth that will make it level on both sides. You may not be able to get them exactly the same but usually if you're within 1/4 bubble on the level from each other then that is acceptable. You may not be able to get them closer than that on some motors.

      5. When putting the outer housings back on, to make leveling the 2 keyways easier, get 2 long 1/4" bolts (at least 3-1/2" long) and thread them into 2 opposite corners of the outer housing. This will make it easier to slide the gears out and move one tooth at a time when trying to get the keyways level. Don't let the gasket maker that you have applied on the surfaces touch until you know you have found the right tooth.

      6. When trying to level the 2 keyways, you will need to slide the shaft/housing on almost all the way to get an accurate reading on the level because the teeth are angled so the shaft actually turns as you push it on. It may take several tries to find the right tooth that will get the keyways as close to level as possible.

      7. A good gasket maker would be RTV Silicone Gasket Maker (the red usually works fine) or use the dark-colored aviation gasket maker with the built-in brush which you can get at NAPA.

      8. If you don't feel like removing the motors to see if they are tight enough, you can do it on the machine but you will have to unhook anything connected to the shafts to get a proper tightness check.

      9. Don't forget to drain the oil before taking the gearbox apart!

      10. When you have the gearbox apart, check the brass gear for bad signs of wear. The teeth on it should be around 1/8" thick. A wore one will have teeth that are almost sharp at the ends and very thin.

      11. Last but not least. If you take more than one gearbox apart at a time make sure you don't get the parts mixed up between them because some motors have different sized brass gears and they won't work right if you try to interchange them.

      Good Luck!
      Experience: Currently Help Maintain 44 82-30s and 50 82-70s.

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      • #4
        A piece of pit carpet and a big zip tie work good too.
        Keep an eye on it see if it does it again

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        • #5
          great input guys, thanks! its been a while since I took a motor apart...same for a gear box...something tells me I will become a fan of the straps :-)...A-RON answered my next question: what material do I make spare straps out of? last question: does it tell you anything when the sweeps stops instantly when I turn off the sweep on/off switch on the back of the machine? thanks again!

          Comment


          • #6
            Ya, you can use a piece of pit carpet or old distributor belt. They both work about as good. We put the straps on with a cushion switch spring which holds them tight. If you make a bailing wire loop and put it through one end of the strap it makes it much easier to hook the spring on then trying to stretch it and get the end through a tiny little hole. Then if you want it tighter you can stick a shim under the spring which will add more tension to the strap. Though the straps may seem like a crude work around to doing it "right", it does save a lot of work and hassle.

            Not exactly sure what you mean by your last question? Do you mean when you turn off the backend "S" switch the sweep motor stops instantly without coasting? It would matter where the sweep is at when it happens. If the sweep is going down when you shut it off and it stops instantly, then that would be a good sign because that's when it would coast the most. If it is just sweeping the deck then it usually won't coast much going in that direction so it doesn't tell you much. I do something similar to test the table motors for coasting. With the chassis on zero, I run the table with the table cam follower at the top of the machine and then let it go with the table about half-way down. If the motor is good and doesn't coast, the table should stop instantly. If not, it will keep coasting all the way down.

            To help eliminate coasting problems you can set the sweep and table timing so that they have to go up very slightly before they go down from the zero position. That eliminates a lot of coasting problems usually. If the table or sweep coasts backwards on zero the cam switch will just keep running it back up until it finally stays there and they won't coast down and cause a lane call or someone hitting them with a ball. We've been doing that way for years without a problem and it has helped a lot.
            Experience: Currently Help Maintain 44 82-30s and 50 82-70s.

            Comment


            • #7
              more excellent input! its the "S" switch on the backend...if I turn it off right at the place it should stop at the top, no coasting occurs at all...gotta do some digging to see if I have any old belt or carpet material...I do have one belt I would like to change, perhaps this will hasten the swap out...I tried adjusting the sweep timing at the cam, but right when I get close to success, the sweep engages, dropping one step to the floor, and stops...perhaps I am going the wrong direction? I will try the other way to be sure...thanks again!

              Comment


              • #8
                To make the sweep/table stop earlier, you will want to turn the cam the same direction that the motor turns. After adjusting it, run the sweep/table through and let it stop at the zero position on the cam and then run it again to see if it goes slightly up before going down. You don't want it to go up too much, just a little bit because making it stop too early can cause other problems (especially with the sweep). Also, I'm not sure how Zot chassis work but after adjusting the sweep to stop earlier you may want to run it through a strike cycle to make sure the sweep doesn't hit the table on it's way out to guard. You have to watch out for that with Omega-Tek converted chassis, but I'm not sure about the Zot ones.
                Experience: Currently Help Maintain 44 82-30s and 50 82-70s.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Nice write up Louie. One thing though.

                  "3. Be very careful with the shims and remove them slowly trying not to break them because they don't make/sell them anymore."

                  I got a few full sets off http://bowl.classicproducts.com/
                  I'll make it work... or break... something should happen.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by MetalDemon View Post
                    Nice write up Louie. One thing though.

                    "3. Be very careful with the shims and remove them slowly trying not to break them because they don't make/sell them anymore."

                    I got a few full sets off http://bowl.classicproducts.com/
                    Interesting, I didn't think they were available anymore. It looks like you have to have an account to see their products so I couldn't browse for them. Nice to know. Thanks.
                    Experience: Currently Help Maintain 44 82-30s and 50 82-70s.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Riverview Scott,

                      If you don't want to screw with the straps and you don't have the time to rebuilt the GC you can take out a spare rubber rivet (black ones are better than the plastic style blue ones) and stick it into the bottom of the combo motors. Take a crank and play with it till there is a slight amount of extra drag from the *rotor. You can extend the life of a minor costing GC for a year or more doing this. GL
                      Last edited by MetalDemon; 08-08-2017, 11:01 AM.
                      I'll make it work... or break... something should happen.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Metal Demon, I am getting strange pictures in my Head as to exactly where you are putting these Rivets, you may need to explain yourself as to exactly where you are putting the rivets.
                        Thanks Frank
                        always doing my best.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I'll make it work... or break... something should happen.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            OH ****! I've never seen that before
                            Frank
                            always doing my best.

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