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AMF Solid State Switch Hum/Klixon

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  • #16
    Hey! Old post but same problem!

    Contacts on our GE Combo 30s are getting to be too much work. I got a few: SS110C (http://www.cybernetic.com.au/product_ss110c.html) but they are b.s. They work for a few cycles then start to hum louder and louder till they click or just stop dead in the water. Checked the caps, windings and quadruple checked wiring.
    We use Omega tek boards but Ive also tried them on old steppers (I don't see why it would make a difference).

    Any help would be amazing!

    I'll make it work... or break... something should happen.

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    • #17
      Klixon
      Regards,

      Billy T
      bthompson@qubicaamf.us

      Comment


      • #18
        I had good results with the AMF SS switch. One thing no one has mentioned is the sweep heads get hammered by pins and they get distorted - bent in. And in some cases it caused the windings to drag the stator. One way to check is to tighten the head and carefully remove screws and gently pry off cap only. Do not losses the body. now turn the stator with your finger you will be able to tell if it is dragging. Should not be hard to turn you should be able to rotate it easy. If it is dragging it is to far out of round. To correct this, First with a large screw driver as gentle as possible pry out the dents using the vent holes. work one side around then come back on the other. You should be able to get a lot of the dents out. Then on a flat metal work bench lay the head on it's side cap. housing facing up. I have used punches and ball pen hammer to recurve the inside bottom edge. NOTE! only punch or strike on the bottum dead center. rotate the head as needed. You can use a couple of shop towels on the side to help keep it from turning, until you get a feel for it. I had a old motor case that i would check my work on and if i went to far i could tap it back as needed.
        One last note I would recommend having a New set of caps. I have had caps that test good and still cause humming. With a new set you can eliminate the possibility of a cap problem.

        Later Chief

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        • #19
          I'm gonna call up AMF later and check for something. Last call if anyone else has seen this problem.
          I have a few motors with these installed that have good parts. They are installed correctly. They all have the exact same symptoms:

          -Works well for 3-5 cycles then begin to sound labored.
          -After a few labored cycles they begin to make clicking type noises along with slowed speed.
          -Ultimately come to a full stop, sometimes the Klixon trips some times it doesn't but remains dead in the water.

          Thanks for the info 8230chief but the stators aren't dragging. As for the caps; Ive tried a few sets already for fun.

          Billyt4qamf, You telling me to change the Klixons? I'm under the impression that they are more or less work or not working. Do you have anything else to add to that?

          Thanks everyone.
          I'll make it work... or break... something should happen.

          Comment


          • #20
            [QUOTE=Billyt4qamf, You telling me to change the Klixons? I'm under the impression that they are more or less work or not working. Do you have anything else to add to that?.[/QUOTE]

            Correct. The klixon may test just fine with a meter, but it can fail when put under load

            Regards,

            Billy T
            bthompson@qubicaamf.us

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            • #21
              Just to make sure, I have moved on to GSX 3 years ago. Are the AMF SS switches the ones made in Australia? I believe they are made by, was it cybernetic?
              the only time I had one fail was around 18 months and it just died. Now I also would put the SS heads on tables as per the weight of the table would prevent drift. and use the old centrifugal contact heads on the sweeps.
              Good luck
              Later Chief

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              • #22
                It sounds like your looking in the right area. I know you said you checked the wiring but double check the red and blue wires to ensure the red wire goes to the start winding itself. I don't think it will work at all if they are reversed but just double checking.

                Did you check your current draw on the winding. With a clamp on ammeter you should be able to see current draw on the red or blue wire when the motor is starting and then drop off to 0 after the motor comes up to speed. This will tell you if the start winding is engaging as it should when the motor starts and disengages as the motor comes up to speed. The humming is indicative of the start winding not engaging. (you could do something similar with voltage but this requires access to the wires or contacts so if you don't have a clamp on ammeter then let me know. an investment into an inexpensive clamp on ammeter is a good addition to your toolbox. You could also use the amps feature of your meter if it has this option but these are usually limited to around 10 amps and the start current may well exceed this depending on your motor)

                These solid state units also have circuitry to protect the winding in the event of excess current draw but the Klixon doesn't open. If the start winding doesn't disengage then excess current draw can occur and this could trip the internal protection and prevent the unit from starting and result in only humming. This may be why it works a few times then stops working. How do you get it to work again? Do you just wait it out or what?

                Are these brand new units?

                Note that capacitors can test good but yet still be bad. Did you change them out with new ones or just some that were lying around. Not likely the problem since you did swap them out but just tossing that out there.

                A Klixon can test good but still be bad or maybe I should say not operate to specification. This is generally apparent because of excess tripping due to the strip inside becoming weak and can't carry as much current before tripping. If your Klixon isn't tripping all the time then it's not as likely to be the problem but because you said it does trip sometimes it is pointing to an excess current condition. Again this could be the result of the start winding not cutting out when the motor comes up to speed. But you also need to check the current on the run winding during start and run to see that the readings are in compliance with the nameplate ratings.

                You could build a simple test box with a simple switch (of proper rating) that installs parallel to the solid state starter. One wire from the switch connects to the blue wire and one to the red wire. Turn it off and then when the motor fails to start you can manually engage the circuit with the switch and if the motor starts, you've hit the problem. Don't forget to turn the switch off after the motor starts. There are other ways to check this but those are things I may do but not recommend.

                Good luck. Let me know of any questions.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Idk..

                  I've tried too many caps from working machines to leave them as a possibility. As you say I doubt it has anything to do with the klixons and I have these NEW QAmf grey SSS in a couple motors which I had marked as working (windings).

                  What really gets me is I have the older SSS in at least 8 lanes/motors already. They are installed exactly the same. Just feel weird that these ones All don't work and have the exact same symptoms.

                  Anyway, QAmf didn't get back to me. I am going to pull one of my old SSS motors and swap in the new Grey SSS. If they still don't work then I'm gonna be confused and resentful of these things altogether. I'll let you guys know what happens if it interests you!

                  Thanks

                  I'll make it work... or break... something should happen.

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                  • #24
                    Yep. You have the curiosity peaked so please keep us posted.

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                    • #25
                      Well, it was somewhere between embarrassing and uneventful.

                      In the process of swapping the new SSS into a motor with an older SSS I realized what happened. I installed the new Grey SSS with the tops completely off and did so with the QAMF instructions/diagram in front of me.

                      Y and S from the plugs are swapped in QAMFs instructions.



                      I'll make it work... or break... something should happen.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Good call btw ExMech!
                        I'll make it work... or break... something should happen.

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                        • #27
                          No need to be embarrassed. We've all had our little oh shoot moments. Thanks for posting what you found. It helps us all. Glad to see you got it going though.

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