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  • Does anyone else have this issue

    Listed below is a few e-amils that I have been having with Storm Bowling. Storm I do appreciate your fast and professional responses. I am wondering if anyone else feels as I do about new balls cracking out so often.

    Just looking for solutions.

    Since these are e-mails and replys start at the bottom and read up.

    Pat

    __________________________________________________

    Hi Pat,

    Your statements are very true and I feel that same way you do. I really
    dislike the fact that the super glue used for finger inserts cause the
    bowling ball to sometimes develop cracks. That is one of the reasons
    why we still issue warranties even though balls have inserts installed.
    But if the sole defect of the ball is due to inserts then my hands are
    tied and I can issue no warranty.

    Dear ,

    I am sure of the I will not see any further damage by looking deeper in the finger holes. I honestly would like to make a point here. This ball was drilled by one of your staff members. I would like to think that they follow the standard rules of drilling balls. Whoever drilled this ball is a very competent ball driller to say the least. I am in awe of the weight system that is in use.

    With today's balls you almost have to put in thumb slugs, and every ball my customers see on TV have finger inserts. They are a standard of the industry, to say the least, in today's bowling world. I have seen a few balls enter the market recently that are truly impressive with how they are using today's technology to meet today's challenges.

    As the ball industry is progressing is there anything in the works to meet the needs of today's customers who now need inserts? I have seen so many issues facing today's bowlers are being met head in by companies like Storm. Is there anything in the works to make the use of inserts, that now seem to be a necessity, OK? This issue does come up a few times every at our local center year and when a new ball cracks out if is a very frustrating situation for the both the bowler and the bowling center, and I am sure the manufacturer. I hate having to say; "Well I can router out the infected area and plug the fingers", then the ball plug usually breaks out. This is also the fastest way to make a new $250 ball look awful. Or the customer needs to get a new $250 ball.

    With the price and high quality of the new balls on the market today I think that a next logical step may be to solve the finger insert and warranty issue. I am sure this an issue that is on your mind also.

    Thanks for listening.

    Pat

    Sent: Monday, February 09, 2004 8:51 AM
    To: Patrick Pacheco
    Subject: RE: Here are the pics

    Hi Pat,

    After reviewing your pictures, I am unable to issue you any type of
    warranty. The crack is caused by the pulling of the super glue (used
    for inserts) on the edge of the holes. This causes the area to become
    weak developing little hairline cracks around the outer shell of the
    ball. I can guarantee that this is not a factory defect, if you remove
    your finger inserts out and look down into the hole you will not see any
    type of cracking in the inner core.

    The use of finger inserts voids the warranty of bowling balls but we
    still issue a warranty if we find any type of manufacturer defect.

    I am sorry about not being able to help you,

    If you have any questions please give me a call,

    Storm Technical Staff

    To: Storm Technical Staff
    Subject: Here are the pics

    Here are some pics I got of the ball. I tried to show the damage around
    the finger holes.

    Thanks for listening.
    Pat Pacheco

    <<ball .JPG>> <<ball damage.JPG>>

    __________________________________________________ ______________________
    __________________________________________________ _____________________

    Hi Pat,
    This ball could very well be under warranty, does it have finger grips?
    If possible would you be able to e-mail me a picture of the area near
    the finger holes?

    To: Storm Technical Staff
    Subject: ContactUs Form

    First Name: Pat , Last Name: Pacheco,
    Comment: 2/4/04 Dear Storm Bowling, My name is Pat Pacheco and I sell
    and drill balls for our local center, Yesterday I was approached by one of our high average bowlers to
    look at a ball. The ball was Purchased at Nationals in Knoxville in 2002
    and drilled at the Storm booth by your staff. The ball is an Eraser PBT
    sn# 02se1k18g011. The ball in cracking around the fingers. I have never
    seen a pattern of chipping like this one before. I was asked to contact
    your company and see if this may be covered under warranty. Thank you
    for your time Pat Pacheco

  • #2
    Re: Does anyone else have this issue

    The only way I have had one crack out is if the customer request the fingers be real close together or the pitches meet at the bottom. Not saying you didn't get a bad ball but if I bevel all them first and the pitches keep a distance at the bottom I don't have a problem.
    Same on the thumb, I bevel it just a little before putting a solid in.

    Drill
    Drill

    David Bolt
    Champaign, IL
    USBC Silver Coach
    IBPSIA BOD
    IBPSIA Advanced
    Technical Certified
    Pro Shops

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Does anyone else have this issue

      I have noticed that if the bowlers are determined to shoot corners with them and they have to flatten the wrist out they will roll across the fingers and break them out.

      Drill
      Drill

      David Bolt
      Champaign, IL
      USBC Silver Coach
      IBPSIA BOD
      IBPSIA Advanced
      Technical Certified
      Pro Shops

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Does anyone else have this issue

        You should post pics of what you're talking about, but i will ass/u/me you are talking about the infamous "ring crack", which typically starts about 1/8 away from the grip and rapidly proceeds around it and the continues to crack further out in "layers" till the ball falls apart.

        Ring cracks come from unrelieved impact stress caused by leaving the edge of an insert hole sharp. Bevels do two things, help distribute stress, and keep the bowler from getting cut up. In the case of inserts, some guys just pop em in and glue, after all, the bowler's never going to touch the edge of that hole with the insert in it, right?? Well, that contributes a LOT to the problem. I'm not saying you need a fingerhole style bevel, but round them off good. Picked up this tip from Mike Riggins at an IBPSIA seminar a few years back, haven't had problems with ring cracks since.

        Another factor might be heat buildup from either trying to drill too fast or with worn drill bits. Never a good thing to have to put pressure on the ball, keep your gear sharp so it cuts easily.

        Kevin
        Find it http://www.bowltech.com/content/btub...141#Post266141

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Does anyone else have this issue

          I have always beveled the finger holes a little even when putting in inserts, and even a little sanding to take the sharp edge of the thumb hole before putting in a slug, and this generally reduces the chance of cracking or chipping as previously stated...

          I have read somewhere however that the cracking is caused by the superglue due to a chemical reaction or something - cant for the life of me remember the exact details though, but will try to find them... I have also been told of a typ of glue you can use that works in a different way and does not make the coverstock round the holes as brittle... i think it is a type of glue that plummers use to stick pipes together, and does not harden as quickly...

          On the subject of cracking, i had always heard that ebonite balls were more prone to "bridge breaking" than other balls, though had not seen this myself. However, A friend bought a ball from the Hammer stand at the ball show at the Worlds in malaysia last september and had it drilled by one of their Pro's. Forgetting the fact that the guy obviously forgot who he was drilling for and put a balance hole in the wrong side of the ball, plugged it and scarpered before the guy collected the ball, the bridge on the ball cracked right the way between the fingers very shortly after... he does not have unusual pitch on the fingers, or the bridge is not too narrow, and he has never had a bridge crack before... have ebonite passed the bridge problem to hammer in the takeover :p

          Ryan

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Does anyone else have this issue

            I really appreciate all of your posts. I would like to go to a class that you guys are teaching. Ball drilling is not what it used to be.

            What my problem with this one is that. this ball was drilled at a Storm booth at Nationals. I though they would back this one for that reason.

            Storm did say this was from the use of super glue.

            If any of you want to see a picture let me know and I will send you some. I cannot post on bowltech as of yet.

            Pat

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Does anyone else have this issue

              well i am in the process of sending my core-power lrg back because it is cracking out around the finger holes. they just told me they would look at it. so we will see if the replace it

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Does anyone else have this issue

                The only ball i have ever had crack or chip are the polyester "fun balls", as they are harder and more brittle. IN fact, i dont think i know of anyone who had one of these that didn't chip / crack / break after not too long... and you would not generally expect to replace your spareball as often as your high performance (low longevity!) reactives and particles etc!

                Ryan

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Does anyone else have this issue

                  What most people don't understand is that these people at Nationals are selling the product but not usually reps., they have their own pro shops and just lease the space. The next time you go ask them if they work for Storm or Brunswick and you might be shocked.

                  Drill
                  Drill

                  David Bolt
                  Champaign, IL
                  USBC Silver Coach
                  IBPSIA BOD
                  IBPSIA Advanced
                  Technical Certified
                  Pro Shops

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Does anyone else have this issue

                    Patrick sent me a picture of the ball in question, it's typical ring cracks. Since he sent me a real high-res (half-meg size) picture, I'm not going to post it here ... too much bandwidth.

                    I hate to put manufacturers on the spot, but if the cracking was caused by "super glue", why is there no specific warning/warrantee voiding based on super glue use?

                    And why has there never been a mention of avoiding super glue at any of the drilling seminars I've attended?

                    If super glue was the cause, wouldn't every ball with grips blow out??

                    Sorry, but the response sounds like bovine feces to me ... deflecting the issue in another direction:

                    Kevin
                    Find it http://www.bowltech.com/content/btub...141#Post266141

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Does anyone else have this issue

                      Just wondering on the bevel situation--how much do you bevel each hole. I run the 'buzz' sander in each hole 4-10 times and I still get the cracking. Super isn't the cause b/c I've drilled a spare plastic ball without inserts and it still has done it. Any suggestions?
                      ......

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Does anyone else have this issue

                        I am still of the opinion that the super-glue increases the chances of the ball cracking, while bevelling it decreases the chances of cracking. I dont think either will guarentee the ball wil or will not crack.

                        I have always used regular run of the mill superglue to fix slugs and inserts, bevelled the finger holes a little and sanded the sharp edge of thumb slug holes, and drilled the fingers a sensible distance apart with pitch so that the are pretty much the same distance apart the whole way down. I have never had a ball develop ring cracks in the way described, though have seen it. I haven't had a bridge crack, though am just after fixing a completely collapsed bridge on a ball a guy brought to me (storm basketball). the only thing I ever get is the odd we chip at the edges of holes and lets face it, i'd be suprised if there were never any given that we are hurteling balls down a wooden lane at up to 20mph at wooden/plastic objects over 60 ft away :p

                        Ryan

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Does anyone else have this issue

                          Well Storm Just sent me a new super charge for a replacement of my core power Lrg. because of cracking around the finger holes.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Does anyone else have this issue

                            About 1 week ago today, drilled a Killer Instinct for a guy, he noticed ring cracks Tuesday night. He then emailed someone at ebonite, who in turn is sending him 2 balls to replace this one. All he had to do was pay shipping, and send his to them! Pretty nice...
                            ......

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Does anyone else have this issue

                              I know that Track had a problem with this very thing several years ago. When they had the Triton Heat, TKOs and even back to the old T-Shark Days. They said then that it was in their coverstock formulation. To keep the balls so strong and aggressive in reaction it made their coverstocks on the border of being stable or sturdy. They said at that time they would rather replace a small percentage of damaged/defective balls rather than have all of their balls be less aggresive but more durable. This may be the same problem that Storm is having now and don't want to admit it. I will say that in the 5+ years that I was involved in the pro shop business that Ebonite was by far the BEST to work with on warranty issues and Columbia was the worst. Good luck in your fight. I went through this with Columbia and to this day I will not sell or recommend a Columbia product unless the customer insists that is what they want.

                              Comment

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