PDA

View Full Version : ball lift switch?



trackman4x4
02-21-2011, 07:27 AM
just started at a center that has a switch on the ball return to turn on the ball lift. it does not come on when you turn on the lane. someone wired it wrong . i need a diagram to put it back to orginal working order. so when you turn on lane from the counter the ball lift comes on. not with the switch. any help would be apprecated. thanks

Marty Murphy
02-21-2011, 08:35 AM
Would help to know what kind of machines and/or ball returns you have.

Marty - Pro Bowl West

trackman4x4
02-22-2011, 03:01 PM
sorry forgot about that LOL. they are a-2 with brunswick 2000 ball lifts

theykeeponrunnin
02-22-2011, 04:27 PM
Does the ball accelerator in back come on or does it come on with the switch also

wepauls
02-22-2011, 05:14 PM
If other lifts don't come on i would check for a breaker being off

Marty Murphy
02-22-2011, 05:28 PM
My B2000's have a wiring diagram on the outside of the control boxes, (mounted inside the lift behind the tires) if you remove the cover you should have one there.
So the front return doesnt run if you turn on one or both machines?
Could also be the relays in the control box, but I have never lost both relays at the same time, but I guess it can happen.

Marty - Pro Bowl West

Quazimoto
02-22-2011, 05:30 PM
His problem isn't that the power lift doesn't run. It's that it does not come on with the lane. He needs help wiring a relay system to connect to the pinsetter 24V side. I stay out of electrical because I've seen too many things wired too many ways.. and I just assume stay out of it unless I can see what I'm working with.. but there are some diagrams to show you how to wire and hook up the control box at the power lift already posted.. and we can tell you what circuit to tie into on the machine to make it all work....

You can click this http://www.bowltech.com/forums/showthread.php?42147&p=412915#post412915 and go to the 3rd or 4th post by Mr. Badwrench which will show you several different ways to hook up the control box as far as wiring it at the power lift. Whether you have 110 or 220V motor's doesn't matter as long as the transformer for you blower motors is made for the same voltage your power lift motor is running. As far as the 24 Volt source.. there should be a cannon plug on the backside of the electrical box.. assuming that the circuit breaker is towards the back of the machine.. and it is not hung on the front.. the cannon plug should be right below the rake tube.. and above the turret.. in the bottom left hand corner(if your standing on the deck light).. if this is not wired up.. it should be wired in parralel with the motor start relay circuit. If you can't figure it out from there you probably shouldn't be working on it to begin with. Don't take it the wrong way as I really don't mean that in a rude way.. but before you start wiring stuff you should have a basic understanding of how it works.. I don't know if you do or not.. but that's why I stay out of electrical generally.. but I'm more than willing to point you in the right direction... just too much that could be different and that could be mucked up if not understood.

Kanga (James)
02-22-2011, 05:51 PM
Here's a photo of the diagram I have on the inside of the control box in only a couple of my system 2000 PL's.

http://ccx0jw.blu.livefilestore.com/y1pFLnSfn-Q3igOkqi-_R2WN7TcSaP2L12jLve_heCfF4_ejH8d4etNgddfPs5i_-t9hrRJTvaenyYe6xbKnqeJSVMTvv9Vv5Ar/PL%20Wire%20Diag.jpg

mr.badwrench
02-22-2011, 05:54 PM
just started at a center that has a switch on the ball return to turn on the ball lift. it does not come on when you turn on the lane. someone wired it wrong .
This is on only one pair? The other lanes are okay?

Does the ball accelerator in back come on or does it come on with the switch also
We will need the answer to this.

You need a 24 volt 2 wire control circuit from each pinsetter to a relay box under the power lift. These usually connect to the accelerator relay box with cannon plugs. Do you have these wires? Do they supply 24 volts AC? Do you have a relay box with 2 relays in it?

Steve Stafford (JBEES)
02-23-2011, 03:29 AM
If he has 2000 series lifts, there was a printed circuit board that was used on certain versions. He may have a bad board that is holding the lift on all the time...so the previous mechanic just wired a switch into the system so they could turn it on and off easily. Since these boxes are mounted inside and are not easily accessible, this may be why there is a switch on the outside of the unit. I would look inside and find the control box to see what you have. If you can take a picture of the box...we can no doubt start to guide you in the right direction.

trackman4x4
02-23-2011, 01:57 PM
thanks for the replies i will check them out when i get to work on thursday. lane 1&2 balllift works when you turn on at the counter, but 3&4 5&6 have been rewired to a switch that someone installed before me i will check the relays and all plugs. thanks guys!!!!

trackman4x4
02-23-2011, 02:07 PM
yes there are 2 relays in the box @ the ball lift but someone cut the wires and the cannon plugs are there but the wires are cut. i do have electrical wiring knowlage. i just downloaded some wiring diagrams for our lifts. on lanes 5&6 the wires to the relays were burnt, but i dont know what happend in the past no one knows at the house what happend either.... so im starting from scratch... i have my work cut out for me. owner says whatever it takes.... fix it. most of this work will be done in the summer when they close so i'll have alot of time to figure it out before the new season starts..

Quazimoto
02-23-2011, 03:39 PM
*steals kanga's picture* Think I asked a long while back about wiring those suckers for 220/110 and not sure if I got the answer I was looking for.. but that picture will do nicelyfor the 208/230. Still looking for one to wire the few power lift motors I have that are 110.. I can't find a part number on the old transformers for the 110 to 24V

mr.badwrench
02-23-2011, 04:24 PM
I can't find a part number on the old transformers for the 110 to 24V
Grainger has a lot of them. I don't know the VA rating on them but if you have a Grainger or similar place nearby you can estimate by the size. I suspect a 60 VA might be the right size. You could order one from a place with a liberal return policy and see if it looks about right.

http://www.brunswickbowling.com/download...-201739-000.pdf (http://www.brunswickbowling.com/downloads/support/Service-Parts-Catalog_Bowling_Power-Lifts_28-201739-000.pdf)
Is #20 on page M7 the one you want?

Kanga (James)
02-23-2011, 06:55 PM
*steals kanga's picture* Think I asked a long while back about wiring those suckers for 220/110 and not sure if I got the answer I was looking for.. but that picture will do nicelyfor the 208/230. Still looking for one to wire the few power lift motors I have that are 110.. I can't find a part number on the old transformers for the 110 to 24V

All three configurations are in the picture. From the look of it the 110v-117v transformer is 53-100322.

Marty Murphy
02-23-2011, 09:20 PM
The 110 volt to 24 volt transformer is #53-100436-000 (on page 8M = item 38)

Marty - Pro Bowl West

Steve Stafford (JBEES)
02-23-2011, 11:50 PM
There are two different transformers that were used to power the 24 volt hand dryer motor. Depending on what you have, it could be either one listed above. If you have the older style boxes that used a conversion box to drive the hand dryer, that is 53-100322 transformer.

amechwannabe
02-24-2011, 02:37 AM
Trackman, I'll take my camera with me tomorrow and stop by the bowling center on my way from work. I am pretty sure that we have an original setup for the B2000 lifts.

amechwannabe
02-25-2011, 03:46 AM
Trackman, I'll take my camera with me tomorrow and stop by the bowling center on my way from work. I am pretty sure that we have an original setup for the B2000 lifts.

http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x371/bobc721/P2250088.jpg
http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x371/bobc721/P2250092.jpg

Kanga's post shows you which wires go to which post on each object. This is what I have under the floor at the 8 lane center on island. Steve Stafford had a picture of a box that had been modified with the cube relays, but I don't recall that I have ever seen a picture showing the transformer connections to the Grainger cube setup. That being said, with the schematics that Kanga posted, you should be able to convert to the new relays without any problems.

bob

Steve Stafford (JBEES)
02-26-2011, 09:53 PM
The transformer would parallel the motor so the wires would go to the same connections as the motor. In this picture, the fan is a 230 volt setup. You would delete those connections as the transformer will be supplying that voltage.

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w61/jbees/230voltpowerliftrelayboxrevisedSmal.jpg

Quazimoto
02-26-2011, 11:27 PM
Not to hijack the thread.. but is the 53-100322 a 110 - 24VAC? Says somethign about a kit to change it to 110 in the manual but that made no sense as to why you'd need a kit.

Steve Stafford (JBEES)
02-27-2011, 05:02 PM
The reason there is a tranformer kit is to allow someone to change the ball rack and hood from an Astroline/Gold Crown setup and not need to change the control box. The original setup would have used a 115 volt hand dryer but the new 2000 lifts used a 24 volt hand dryer due to the location of the hand dryer. There is no conversion from 24 to 115 available as it would be against electrical code to use a 115 volt hand dryer motor on a 2000 ball rack.

amechwannabe
02-27-2011, 05:24 PM
Thanks for posting that Steve, is that because the is hand dryer is not enclosed? As it would be in the Gold Crown rack? I know the center that I worked in just changed out 18 GC with B2000 racks a year or so ago and had to put transformers in all the boxes up front.

Steve Stafford (JBEES)
02-28-2011, 01:21 AM
It is because the wiring to the hand dryer is "exposed" to the public. The wiring can not carry high voltage as someone could seperate the connectors and get shocked or the wires can fray and the same end result.

Adam_Davis
03-01-2011, 11:23 PM
It is because the wiring to the hand dryer is "exposed" to the public. The wiring can not carry high voltage as someone could seperate the connectors and get shocked or the wires can fray and the same end result.

Interesting. We have Murray Pathfinder racks and hoods. They are very similar to the B2000 racks and hoods. Ours have 115V hand dryer motors installed, apparently factory installed. The wiring does not appear that different from the 2000's either.

At any rate, could one not simply rewire a 2000 rack with the appropriate cabling (metal sheathed) for a 115V hand dryer?