Accuscore XL scoring issue

[jimseay]

Hello everyone. I am back on-line after many months. My home pc gave up the ghost, and I lost
communication with Bowltech. Finally, I have access to a computer at work, although on a limited
basis due to my work schedule and business hours. I had to re-register on Bowltech, and now am shown as a new member. I am still trying to become familiar with the new format, and have limited time
to view the forums, so bear with me please, if my responses are delayed sometimes.
I have been reading the posts on the thread started by nighthawk on 12-05-11 on chronic mis-scores.
My problem is similar; I have one pair of lanes on which the odd machine will mis-score randomly. It may score perfectly for an entire game, then will fail to see pins that remain after 1st ball, or will see
pins that aren't there. One fairly consistent symptom is that if a gutter ball is thrown on 1st ball (or if
reset button is pushed on the ball rack on 1st ball) the graphic display on the monitor will not see the
1, 5, and 8 pins. And sometimes after a strike, the display will show random pins remaining. I have
changed out the camera, MI, monitor CPU, even the BT circuit card with working units from other pairs
of lanes with no improvement, and the units from this pair work fine on other lanes. I have checked and
adjusted the timing on the zero and scoring switches forward and backward with no improvement. Pin light and fixture seem fine, no streaks on pit curtain. I thought the rake might have been in the way, still mis-scored with rake board removed. If the problem was consistent, I would suspect a
comm cable problem, and still can't discount that possibility. Any ideas on this problem greatly
appreciated.

[Ted]

The scoring issue is one of timing. When the ball drops the rake, it's out of the way when the gearbox starts and the '0' switch comes off and the camera looks at the pins over top the rake.
When wither the triggering or reset button is pushed, the score is also taken as soon as the gearbox comes off 0, difference is, the rake is starting down at the same time.
So, the deck or rake starts to shadow the pins. Rakes that slam down, instead of the shock letting it down, have this issue all the time if the shotgun doesn't drop the rake.
You are going to have to move the '0' switch so it almost makes when the machine stops at 0. Just the slightest movement of the gearbox coming off 0 will make it score. Once you've found the cam position that has the switch roller almost making, loosen the screw mounting the 0 switch and tweak it up and down to be sure it makes ASAP when the gearbox starts.

[jimseay]

Ted, thanks for your response. I had re-adjusted the zero switch after reading the responses to Nighthawk's post, but will re-visit that today. I was thinking that removing the rake board would have eliminated that as the problem, but didn't consider the deck shadowing the pins. I will also work on the rake drop speed today (it does drop kinda fast - there are springs on both sides of the rake). I think I will replace the shock as well, the one on there now is of unknown age, and I have a new replacement. I will try to post again later today, we open at 3:00 PM and I probably won't have any time on the computer after that. I appreciate your input on this and will keep posting as this develops.

It's good to be back on Bowltech!

[jimseay]

Typical day yesterday. Intended to work on the scoring issue, but had a blown-out ball wheel guide roller on lane 23. Didn't have much time to work on the scoring issue, but did replace the rake shock, and took off the big spring on the 7 side. Then the rake came down way to slow, so I put it back on. Rake drop speed is comparable to other machines.
Readjusted the zero switch to hair-trigger operation the instant the gear box moves. Turned the lane on and threw an intentional gutter ball on first shot. The graphic showed all pins except the 8 pin. Didn't have time to pursue it further yesterday. I'll post again when I haved any more info.

[jimseay]

This one still has me stumped. I revisited the pin light and fixture, although the light level seemed ok. Cleaned the reflective surface of the fixture and installed new lamp, no help. Whether the shotgun or the reset triggers the machine, a miss on 1st ball gives me a graphic that doesn't see the 8 pin (and occasionally the head pin).
I think I remember somebody telling me that the led array on the side of the camera gives an indication of light level when the camera is in run mode. I don't have much technical info on Accuscore XL; is that correct? If so, does anyone have a chart or something to go by? I may be grasping at straws here, but when straws are all you have.......

[Ted]

The only LED indication is one of a bad calibration, then the camera reverts back to the last good one. That is one of the middle LEDs.
As they bowl you'll see one of the forward LEDs light up when the camera takes the count. Watching this, as well as where the deck is at that exact time, cam give you an indication of the timing.
But, I watch when the '0' light goes off when the machine starts to cycle. It should be immediate. compare it to amother machine that is scoring ok.
In 1st ball, the score light flashes immediately when it comes off '0'. In 2nd ball, it flashes at 144 degrees (when the rake hook grabs and just starts to move).
If you've determined the camera is 1) at the right height (may need to be higher for crown pins), 2) the target test mode has solid OK LEDs, and 3) the '0' switch, whitch is critical in 1st ball, is set to make with the slightest movement of detector.
It's so close, clutch adjustments can cause scoring errors.

[jimseay]

Update: "Zero" light goes off immediately when the machine begins its cycle. It's even quicker then most of the other machines, which are scoring fine.
In 1st ball, score light flashes the instant the zero light goes off, and in 2nd ball, score light flashes just when the rake hook locks onto the block (no scoring issues
in 2nd ball even from the start). Camera has been adjusted up (and down) in 1/16th inch increments as much as 1/4 inch with no improvement. Our pins are AMF, not
crowns, but thought it was worth a shot anyway. Camera alignment is solid with OK leds. One thought here, my alignment targets are pretty old, and have some smudges
from greasy fingers over the years, but I've used them for all my camera alignments with no problems elsewhere. Could this particular pair of lanes just be more picky about
clean targets? I appreciate the input, and I think I have all the suggestions covered. Last time I tested the scoring, I bowled one complete game with as many different
pin configurations as I could think of, with no scoring errors, then started a second game with a strike, and got a graphic showing the 3, 5, 9, and 10 remaining. Yikes!
What am I missing?

Edit: I forgot to mention I also advanced and retarded gear box clutch timing and saw no improvement.

[Ted]

There is a big difference of scoring timing with XL and BOSS, depending on what cycles the machine.
I need to know if there is a misscore when the ball hits the cushion hard enough to drop the rake, versus scoring issues if the ball triggering has to cycle the machine.
The difference is - the deck and rake dropping at the same time if the ball trigger (or reset button) drops the rake. Versus the ball hitting the cushion hard enough the shotgun drops the rake. Critical diffferences.

[jim8230]

Have you tried replacing the cluster microswitch with a new one?

[nighthawk]

Interesting indeed. Here they have no rake trip turnbuckles,well...maybe only on 4 lanes,they we're removed due to mis-scores long ago but many single pin mis-scores are still here.
Personally i'd love to install those turnbuckles to get the sweeps out of the way faster!Need to find ALOT of used ones.
Swapped everything from one lane to anotherand still no scoring at all from one lane,the other lane see's the 7,8,9 pins.
Swapped components work fine in other lane.
Amf scoring with brunswicks is too fussy to me,it could have been done sooo much better but,it is what it is.
Here the entire scoring system needs to be junked since it was a used version and a BAAD install from the get go.

[jimseay]

I'm sorry about the delay in posting back. Things have gotten pretty crazy around here this week. My only helper in the back has quit on me, it seems. Haven't heard from him since Wednesday, and I'm back to doing the lanes, pinchasing, and all the cleaning, as well as trying to keep the machines running. As far as the scoring issue I posted about, I took a detour the last couple of days; while adjusting the GB clutch timing, I noticed the machine stopping intermittently either early or late from where I adjusted it. I found that the little triangular area on the clutch yoke was worn down where the adjusting screw nylon insert contacted it. I removed the clutch yoke and installed the repair kit to see if that would solve the problem. It did not. The lane still mis-scores randomly whether the GB is triggered from ball impact or from electronic triggering. I did check the operation of the microswitch, and although it checked fine I will try replacing it. Don't have any new ones, will try a replacement from a spare cluster swith assembly first before ordering new. I have a new problem this week, which I will try to post in the A2 forum this weekend. When it rains, it pours! Thanx to everyone.

[Ted]

The only other thing I can think of is having A-2 pulley on the motor, verses a little slower Jet-Back.
I've had to add timing resistors to the TDM to add a fraction of a second to the delay in first ball. It was usually with AS Plus, but I can see it would make a difference with XL/BOSS.
Once the gearbox comes off '0', and the score light flashes, with A-2 speed, the deck and rake can be in inch or so lower at take count time.

[jim seay]

I'm back on the scoring issue after a couple of days detour with a broken deck lowering hook.
Ted, I'm running the old Model A pulley, 5 1/4 inch, as slow as I can run them. I've watched many cycles, and I can't see the deck move at all before the zero light goes off and the score light flashes. I'm about ready to start all over with swapping scoring components. This one is really resisting treatment.

[Ted]

Raise the camera 1/2" to 3/4" and try it.

[jim seay]

Raised the camera 1/2" today. Still mis-scoring randomly, always on 1st ball. Seems like my best bet is to start over, and approach this like a new problem, component swaps, etc.
Boy, I'm gettin' tired of this one!