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Preventative Maintenance - Vector HD Problem

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  • Preventative Maintenance - Vector HD Problem

    Tried to help a friend out at my old center with an electrical problem. 24 Brunswick Jetbacks, Serial 3000, no TDM with Vector HD Scoring which I know nothing about other than just going through the troubleshooting manual which gave me no help. Also did Advanced search here and could not find anything.

    With machine OFF at Main Breaker, everything is good as it should be. Turn breaker ON, Motor Contactor tries to pull IN, you can hear it buzzing. Sometimes it will pull in if you cycle the Main Breaker a few times. Motor Start Relay does Not move or try to pull in. Booster relay is also buzzing. This is telling me that the Motor Contactor Coil is receiving half voltage as it is a 208 Coil. (Only one phase is switched through Start Relay and this Relay remains Open). Once the Contactor pulls in it will usually stay pulled in. I had wired in a managers Override switch over 40 years ago, (Parallel switch to the scoring connection). If you Unplug the 3 Pin Connector from the Scoring, (apparently Brunswick uses the original manager's switch wiring to interface with the pinsetter rather than independent wiring like Cubica), the Electric box operates perfectly. Turning the Override switch ON now brings in the Start Relay, Motor Contactor and Booster. Turning it OFF now turns off power to Start Relay, Contactor and Booster, everything disengages properly. ???? Reset Main Control box on Masking unit wall, (it controls 8 Lanes apparently), had No effect. If you reconnect the three pin connector, all the problems reappear. ??? Should also point out that the Odd # Lane of this pair works just fine. Had to leave so I could not do anymore troubleshooting and I don't understand the Brunswick System anyway. Leaving the three pin connector disconnected allows the machine to run perfectly using the Override switch.

    image_12252.png
    Everything has to be Somewhere !!

  • #2
    Totally misdiagnosed this one. It was the Motor Start RELAY that was trying to pull in ! After talking with the manager, he indicated the SO cord and 3-pin Connector from the old manager's control switch is NOT used. We had opened the the 8 Lane junction box to check for a short there. Oh Boy, what a mess of crunchy dried out wires, many with insulation falling off, (they are 61 years old). However they are still carrying 24 Volts to somewhere. It appears that Brunswick cut the Main Trunk wires that led to the Front Manager's Control Switches somewhere in the ceiling or behind the main counter. I doubt they were taped or insulated which would explain why there was a slight amount of voltage trying to get to the Motor Start Relay. Why Brunswick didn't disconnect this connector, who knows. I had also indicated to the mechanic that he get the pinch connectors out of there that now come from the Scoring to start the machine and make solid connections here. He did so but hadn't tried to start the machine since he did that with the 3-pin connector disconnected. Tried it, everything working fine. Disconnected the 3-pin connectors on another pair, they too worked just fine. I recommended he disconnect all these connectors, cover the socket and remove all the old crispy wiring. I can sleep now.
    Everything has to be Somewhere !!

    Comment


    • #3
      So are you saying that just unplugging the 3 pin connector solved the issue?

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      • #4
        There is a 19 conductor cable that used to run from the "bank of 8 box" in the back by the machines, up to the control counter switches and frame meters.
        As auto scoring took over, the scoring was used to turn the lanes off and on, so alot of centers just cut off the old cable and removed the desk switches.
        Who knows where and how the cables were cut.

        Save yourself a bunch of future headaches, and just unplug the old managers control cable (3-pin cannon plugs) that lead to the bank of 8 box.
        The 24 volt control comes from each pinsetter, and can cause a problem anywhere in the bank of 8 machines that share the junction box in the back.
        You probably had 2 or more wires touching in the cable somewhere, or possibly the old cut cable rubbing up against something.

        The pinch connectors are standard issue for a Brunswick install, including the newest system Sync.
        I have had intermittent problems with them, and remove them as I get to them, and just splice the wiring.

        Comment


        • #5
          Yes, exM. But, I did not ring out that cable to see if was partially shorted or conducting a portion of the 24 Volt Control Power BUT I'm pretty sure it was as the Motor Start Relay was trying to "Pull IN". If you gently pushed down on the top of the relay, it would "Snap Closed". I told the mechanic to unplug ALL these 3-Pin Connectors, (it's not my house). Don't know why they didn't disconnect them on the original install as they are no longer used. Wook, Before I left Beloit Lanes, I removed every pinch connector as I too was experiencing intermittent problems with machines Not turning on or resets Not working. Those pinch connectors are junk IMO and Not designed for vibration environments. The sad thing is most of the Scoring Connections could be made right to TS2 terminals. Only one connection would need to be made to the Start Relay Wiring. A Butt Connector or Solder Connection should be used here. I included the schematics again to demonstrate. I don't have TDM's, 3000 Serial number machines. I worked at this house in the 70's and ironically, they are 3000 Serial Number just like I had at Beloit Lanes for 42 years.

          Schematic Scoring.pdf Schematic LV WIRE Config 1.pdf
          Everything has to be Somewhere !!

          Comment


          • #6
            I seen this often. The symptoms you described are typical of a high voltage to low voltage crossover. Whereas the high voltage will travel on the low voltage wiring without presentinga problem on that particular pinsetter. That high voltage is using the entire 24vac control circuit as a carrier and does go to the front desk on the 19 conductor cable. Once it makes it there, it will carry to all eight pinsetters on that bank because of the shared common within the cable, the nineteenth conductor. By disconnecting the pinsetters from the shared common your problem that presented went away but still exists in one of those eight machines. You have a high voltage conductor touching a low voltage conductor. In almost every case, I have found it to be on the motor start relay, and occasionally in either the accelerator, booster, or ball lift control box. All it takes is one strand and we all know how many wires need to be soldered to the relays in close proximity of each other, and of different potential. The contacts on the motor start relay are used for two different voltages whereas the others use the contacts for high voltage only and the coil voltage is low. You should at least visually inspect the motor start relay contact point solder connections on all eight machines looking for the motor contactor coil voltage bleeding over to the 1st and 2nd ball light circuit. Also note if you or anyone on the staff has replaced any motor start relays recently or had hands in the area of the motor start relay such as a time delay module change, etc. One other telltale is a slight "bite" when you touch the metal of a pinsetter just right that it feels like a static discharge "from hell". You have contained the short to the machine causing it but you haven't fixed it. Give it more time and it could get worse and even dangerous. Have you had any machines that had a capacitor in the old school TDM explode or rapidly fail?

            Comment


            • #7
              Sorry about the typo, it's been a long day. Should have said: I HAVE seen this often. Thanks.

              Comment

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