HELP!!! Scoring problems

[MA56]

I just started working at a new center and the scoring system they have i have no experience with it. Its a Model 79 Scanner, Its old school. Model # 17-600800. On a few lanes it scores wrong every other game played and then it will score correctly again. Can anyone give me any ideas to what might be the problem. I have the service manual open for this scanner and reading it trying to learn as much as i can. Any help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks

[MA56]

Forgot to mention its a AS-80 scoring system

[Kanga (James)]

MA56, I've moved your thread to the Brunswick Scoring forum. You may also want to do a search to help find an answer.

[MASTERMIKE]

You should have a scanner tester for them...

If i remember correctly there was a red wire and a black that hooked up to the DA board, I think thats what the board on that scanner was called...

You have numbers on your tester i think it was 10 working down to 0 if i remember correctly, There was little potentiometer screws on the DA board that you adjusted the numbers you see on your tester..

Man its been real long time since i have played with that set up, If more comes to mind i will post

But thats where i would start by looking at that, those scanners always needed frequent adjustment

Mike

[MA56]

Thanks Kanga for the move I knew there was a forum for scoring just couldnt find it. I found the tester your talking about MasterMike it was buried under some old scanners. I guess no ones adjusted them in awhile. I guess i will read as much as i can tonight and try to figure the adjustments out in the morning. Thanks MasterMike

[MASTERMIKE]

Hope it helps bud,

If they have not been adjusted in awhile you will make a big difference...

I also remember a lamp on them that would get weak, And cleaning the red lense always helped also in calibration...

I think i remember working the numbers evenly down on tester somehow from 10 to 1 or something like that

Mike

[MA56]

Well my first day here all the complaints were about the scoring so that will be on the top of my long to-do list. I have alot of work and alot to learn. Thanks Mike If you remember anything else please let me know.

[MASTERMIKE]

Will do bud..... have fun

[bwhite757]

Ok, to try and help you out. Your scanner tester has a volt meter on it, 4 windows that tell you what the scanner is reading on each lane, and each direction the scanner head moves (you want to get these to read 10 in all windows), and a knob that reads 2,4,6,8... There's a cord that has a two connectors, unplug the scanner top from bottom and plug these into the tester. You also have a red and black leads from the scanner tester, these are hooked onto the scanner amp board (the board on the side of the scanner). Theres 2 small prongs on the Amp board, one at the front of the board about halfway down, and one in the middle of the board at the bottom. The Red lead hooks to the front prong, the black lead hooks to the middle/bottom prong.

Now flip the switch wear your scanner head is lit up but not moving. Move it by hand from side-to-side and make sure your scanner is level, red light bottom just touching the top stripe of all pins on both lanes. Once it's level then you can adjust them. Move the scanner head to the 7-pin of left lane. Here you want to adjust the front most potentiometer until your volt meter reads +5, flip the switch on your scanner tester, the scanner light should turn off, adjust the back potentiometer until the volt meter reads -5. Keep going back and forth until you get it as close as you can. (Takes some practice). The do the same on the 10-pin of the right lane. When you flip your scanner back on, you should read 10's in all 4 of your boxes. This is the basics, but should get you in the right direction.

If the problem is intermittent then you need to look at individual parts instead of bias/gain adjustments. You could have a failing scanner amp board, or scanner transformer, or failing 5volt in the bowler's console. I usually swap parts from a good pair until the problem moves, then I know what to replace. The 79 scanners are good. I prefer them over 86 scanners and cameras for the AS-80 scoring. As long as they're mounted solidly, once you get them adjusted properly, you rarely have problems where bias/gain adjustments are needed. Nowadays I'm having boards fail right and left it seems. Think these things are running on borrowed time IMO.

[rivmike]

Ok, to try and help you out. Your scanner tester has a volt meter on it, 4 windows that tell you what the scanner is reading on each lane, and each direction the scanner head moves (you want to get these to read 10 in all windows), and a knob that reads 2,4,6,8... There's a cord that has a two connectors, unplug the scanner top from bottom and plug these into the tester. You also have a red and black leads from the scanner tester, these are hooked onto the scanner amp board (the board on the side of the scanner). Theres 2 small prongs on the Amp board, one at the front of the board about halfway down, and one in the middle of the board at the bottom. The Red lead hooks to the front prong, the black lead hooks to the middle/bottom prong.

Now flip the switch wear your scanner head is lit up but not moving. Move it by hand from side-to-side and make sure your scanner is level, red light bottom just touching the top stripe of all pins on both lanes. Once it's level then you can adjust them. Move the scanner head to the 7-pin of left lane. Here you want to adjust the front most potentiometer until your volt meter reads +5, flip the switch on your scanner tester, the scanner light should turn off, adjust the back potentiometer until the volt meter reads -5. Keep going back and forth until you get it as close as you can. (Takes some practice). The do the same on the 10-pin of the right lane. When you flip your scanner back on, you should read 10's in all 4 of your boxes. This is the basics, but should get you in the right direction.

If the problem is intermittent then you need to look at individual parts instead of bias/gain adjustments. You could have a failing scanner amp board, or scanner transformer, or failing 5volt in the bowler's console. I usually swap parts from a good pair until the problem moves, then I know what to replace. The 79 scanners are good. I prefer them over 86 scanners and cameras for the AS-80 scoring. As long as they're mounted solidly, once you get them adjusted properly, you rarely have problems where bias/gain adjustments are needed. Nowadays I'm having boards fail right and left it seems. Think these things are running on borrowed time IMO.

Very good explaination, but don't try to be to good. don't try to get the 10 to 10's on the tester past 6 or you will have problems when you have newer pins. Old stuff, DA boards always raddle loose and the bulb connection needed the bulb soldered to the base/wire. Wow that's hard to remember!

[RipOwens]

MA, are you in ennis ? if so 79s are hard to learn by yourself , to many variables. If your in ennis I set them all when new pins where put in 2 yrs ago and dont think anyone has been there that new them since, explains tester being buried. They need to be adj. with the decline in pin condition. Your company should do you a favor and send someone down that knows the system to train you, save you alot of headaches.

[Ted]

It's likely on the AMP board (on the side) as it's intermittent. Write down the values on all the capacitors and get them on-line or perhaps the component drawers at your nearby radio shack. They are old, and likely failing.

[ewen]

Need more information as to the scoring problems you are having, such as not scoring when a ball is thrown, wrong pin count ( off by one or more than one) scoring wrong on a certain side of the lane .
I am using an AS 90 (upgraded from AS-80) system that was installed in the center in 2003 after being in storage for several years. Some of the problems I have come across other than the scanner itself being out of adjustment : 44/144 degree switches out of adjustment causing scanner to read a dropping rake or deck. Reflections from rake arms or curtains. Misadjusted 1 /2 ball micro switch lever causing data to be taken on 144 degrees first ball . Bad switch in cluster causing no score . Misadjusted ball detect allowing scanner to be running red all the time ,which usually results in no score being given. ( This can be seen from front of pinsetter (if you have deck shields ) watch for red reflection on deck shield when setting or resetting pins,providing that opposite machine of pair is not taking score at the same time ) .When a ball passes through the ball detect at the scanner, the scanner will light ( turn red ) and start scanning. If in first ball the scanner will turn off after the 44 degree switch is closed, on second ball, scanner turns off after 144 degrees. if ball detect is not adjusted correctly, or if you have a bad photo cell in ball detect head, the scanner will not turn off, and constantly run . A bad wire from the scanner photo cell to the amp board will give inconsistent readings. bad pots on the amp board will give flakey readings on the scanner tester. Have had a bad DA board that always mis scored by 1 pin. Also Gearbox clutch adjustment is critical for the zero degree micro switch on the cluster.
Posting your specific scoring issues will make it easier to point you in the right direction. Good luck, as I feel your pain having been thrown into an unfamiliar system in 2003 with no training.

[john dubose]

upgrade to ccd cams as soon as you can

[SCbowls]

I have found adjusting the tester to be -4 and then +6. <-5 and +5 are what the book says> I will agree that I prefer them over 86 scanners.