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F Box Failure?


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  • F Box Failure?

    Have a pair of lanes where only the right pinsetter will come on. Everything else looks normal. The machine can be turned on with the mechanics switches. The red light on the F Box does not come on for that lane. The sensors at the camera will cycle the machine,

    Figgered I'd ask before I swap the F Box.
    If you think my girlfriend can fight, you should see her box!

  • #2
    Sounds like an F-Box issue if the LED won't come on for that lane but it scores and cycles when you turn it on manually. You can swap the connectors for the left and right machines inside the F-Box and the left hand lane should control the right hand lane and vice versa. If the right hand controls the left machine it's probably the F-Box.


    • #3
      Swapped the F box with another lane. Works.

      Now I'm trying to figure out the power wire. I'm assuming that wire (3rd and 4th in from the left on the two large connectors) supplies power to the motor start relay. The funny thing is I read no voltage to speak of on the even lane (which works) but I get 28 vac on the odd lane.
      If you think my girlfriend can fight, you should see her box!


      • #4
        The F-Box doesn't really supply voltage to the MSR. It simply provides a set of dry contacts on a relay to make/interrupt the voltage the machine provides to the MSR. The voltage you read will depend on how and when you read it.

        With one probe on terminal 3 and the other on terminal 4 you are reading the voltage drop across the relay contacts. So when the F-Box turns the machine on, the voltage read here should be 0 volts. But when the F-Box is turning the machine off, the voltage read here should be 24 to 28 VAC (approximately). This should be your machine transformer voltage. Since there is no current flowing in the circuit, the full voltage will show across the open switch. This is true for any circuit with one switch controlling it.

        This will change with multiple switches controlling the circuit. So, for example, if you have a machine that won't turn on, then measuring the voltage here will tell you if any of the other switches are open. Simply turn the machine off with the scoring and if you get 0 VAC across the F-Box contacts, you know there is a break elsewhere in the circuit preventing voltage at the switch such as one of the jam switches or masking switch being open. However, it you measured 26 VAC across these contacts then you would know the wiring is good and all the switches are closed.

        So if you measured the good lane when the scoring had it turned on, then you would get the 0 volts which you read. Turning that good lane off with the scoring should give you the same 28 VAC the bad lane gives you. But with the bad F-Box, the relay wouldn't turn on so the voltage across the contacts would be the 28 VAC with the scoring on or off, which is what you read. As explained above, this would tell you the MSR wiring is good and all the other switches are closed so the problem is in the F-Box relay either burnt out or the board/scoring not turning it on.

        As a side note, I believe there is a setting in the scoring that needs turned on in order for the scoring to automatically turn the machine on when the scoring turns on. However, since you swapped the F-Box and the machine started working, you can assume this setting is set.


        • #5
          You misunderstood me. I swapped the Fboxes and the box worked on another lane. The machine in question still malfunctioned with a different Fbox.

          Long story short - had to copy pinsetter parameters from another lane. How they got messed up during a transfer will remain a mystery.
          If you think my girlfriend can fight, you should see her box!


          • #6
            Originally posted by Jack_Sparrow View Post

            Long story short - had to copy pinsetter parameters from another lane. How they got messed up during a transfer will remain a mystery.
            I never saw that until maybe 3 years ago. Now I see it often enough that I move it up to early in my trouble shooting. The most frequent problem I see from that file being corrupt is an extra cycle that looks like a tenth frame cycle wiping out a spare.


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