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  • Ball detects

    We have Qubica Q-Vision scoring with 6 boxes. I am not familiar with all the sytems out there so I hope that somehow helps indentify what we have. I know that on our cameras we have 2 ball detects per lane. The machine will cycle and score as long as one of the ball detects is lined up and working properly. Both are not needed for this function, but of course will not record ball speed without both of them working properly. We recently discovered however that if one of your ball detects goes bad, NOTHING will work. In other words, although the 2nd. ball detect does not have to be lined up, IT DOES HAVE TO BE THERE ! My Question? Has anyone else had one go bad? Is there a way to wire around this problem should a ball detect go bad. I am surprised that if both ball detects are necessary for the operation of the machine, a ball detect is not included in the spare parts kit. BTW We have Brunswick machines. I don't think that makes a differance because the 6 box will not put out a cycle signal without both ball detects being present, but I thought I would mention it anyway. Thanks for your help. Greg
    I got it ! I got it ! Oh damn

  • #2
    After talking with another mechanic in town, there is indeed a way to wire around this problem. He discovered it this morning. Remove the bad ball detect entirely. Make sure the ball detect nearest the foul line is working and lined up. On he other lane (of the pair) misalign the ball detect nearest the pins. Run a jumper wire from the black lead of the good (misaligned) ball detect to where the black lead would go for the now missing ball detect. Both lanes will cycle and score, niether of course will show ball speed. I tried thos myself, and it worked on my installation also. BTW Again, both of these systems are installed on Brunswick machines, but I doubt that it matters. I also ordered a spare ball detect from AMF. PN. KIT-FOT-1 Cost: $126
    I got it ! I got it ! Oh damn

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    • #3
      Ya they can go bad and as you already stated they must both be there and hooked up, working or not. If your not going to replace it if its bad, why remove it anyways? Maybe someone else has tried to "wire" around it but the cost of those boards sort of eliminates any "field" testing like this.

      Marty - Pro Bowl West
      56 Jap A-2's Qubica VDB's
      2 Kustodian Walkers
      http://s1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa408/a2mechanic

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      • #4
        My thoughts exactly. I'm glad he did the "testing" and not me
        I got it ! I got it ! Oh damn

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        • #5
          Well, I found this in the manual that states -
          The T(M)-Vision will not work if one of the sensors is missing. It is then necessary to jump the positions where the sensor’s black and blue wires were in order to make the T(M)-Vision work without the missing sensor

          So I guess you can jump the detector out of the system if needed,

          Marty - Pro Bowl West
          56 Jap A-2's Qubica VDB's
          2 Kustodian Walkers
          http://s1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa408/a2mechanic

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          • #6
            I am not familiar with all the systems out there. Is T(M) Vision similar to Q Vision? Will this tactic work on Q Vision as well? I wish there was a more detailed instruction. Do they mean simply place a jumper between the blue and black position? Guess I will call Qubica this morning and see what I can find out, but I am not holding my breath. Maybe one of the Qubica techs can post an answer here. Sure would be appreciated..
            I got it ! I got it ! Oh damn

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            • #7
              The ball detectors at the camera are responsible for 3 things happening per lane...

              1. start the scoring sequence
              2. calculate the ball speed to cycle the machine at the proper time
              3. calculate the ball speed to show the bowler how fast the ball was going

              This is what I have found so far...

              There are 2 detectors per lane. The 'start' detector is near the foul line and the 'stop' detector near the pins. If, say, the 'stop' detector goes bad or is misaligned the scoring won't know how fast the ball was going, so you lose ball speed. But, because it can't figure out how fast the ball went by it also doesn't cycle the machine normally and uses a default setting which would cycle it late and score late. So basically what you end up with is (the machine cycling late and) possible mis scores from the scoring happening late. On an A2 with the rake dropping with cushion impact this may not be that much of an issue as the machine would still cycle normally but it may mis score because it's still scoring late.

              I recently had a lane that was mis scoring, turned out there was a loose wires from the stop detector so it was scoring late (still using cushion start switches) because it was using the late default setting and seeing the sweep/table. So bottom line is it can work with one detector but it can have problems, best to have them both working.

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              • #8
                I'm thinking yes it applies to Q vision as well, but I am waiting on confirmation from the senior scoring tech
                Regards,

                Billy T
                bthompson@qubicaamf.us

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                • #9
                  we are AMF equipped. For us when one is not lined up, it seems to default to like a 6-7 second delay before cycling, which just causes havoc. if it would default to like say 3 secs would be better. when this happens, bowler launches ball, gets his spare ball, seeing no deadwood launches his 2nd ball (or at least in his approach) machine finally cycles, BAMM.

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                  • #10
                    Well I had one (front) go out over the weekend, and my observations are - if the front one goes out you will see the 6 to 7 second delay with no ball speed display. If the rear one goes, we see an approx 12 second delay, again no ball speed. Either case, bowlers hitting the reset button can cause misscoring.

                    Marty - Pro Bowl West
                    56 Jap A-2's Qubica VDB's
                    2 Kustodian Walkers
                    http://s1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa408/a2mechanic

                    Comment

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