shutting off 10th frame recycle

[dothan]

In open play I have to many sweeps getting hit because bowlers do not look up at the screen to tell them to stop because the machine has to set a full set after the 10th frame is done for that bowler. In other words when the bowler picks up the spare and his/her next ball leaves pins the machine has a slight delay before automatic cycle to set a full set for the next bowler but the bowler doesnt look at the sreen to see it has the stop bowling warning sigh up. I want to get rid of that automatic cycle for open play only. Forcing the bowler either to push the button to get a full set or if they do bowl at least the sweep doesnt drop. I have looked in the conqueor system and I can not find it anywhere to change the setting. I have comqueor 1.76.

[AMFsupt]

You could go into Setup>Technical Setup> Pinsetter and Camera. In the Pinsetter Parameters uncheck 2nd ball light. Its a pain to do that, but some times the scoring won't know if its in 1st or 2nd ball during the game if something goes wrong. You could try that but you will have to switch back for a bowler that knows what he is doing. I get that problem too with the speed bowlers that just want to keep throwing the ball down.

[Tablejam]

I think in lane setup under league you can set it to see 2nd ball and on default uncheck it so that when lanes are opened in open play it will not do the extra cycle but when lanes are opened in league it will. Im at home right now so im not exactly sure if its in there but that what I remember.

[BillyT4QAMF]

I don't think removing the 2nd ball option is going to do what you're looking for, and I don't think you can disable the 10th frame function in conqueror either.

How much time is there between the machine finishing the 1st ball cycle and beginning the 2nd ball cycle? I can see these same people hitting the sweep in the event of a pinjam. If this were the case, I'm sure you would see the way to avoid that problem would involve the bowler in some way.

[dothan]

not sure on the time but i know its not long. I'll check next time on it. Open bowlers do not look at the monitors when its 10th frame so when they leave pins they go ahead and bowl. I dont have this problem with league bowlers. Its starting to get out of hand and I have discuss this with the bowlers but its still happens. Just like to disable the feature. Also I do not have 1st or second ball light on my machines.

[Tablejam]

I don't think removing the 2nd ball option is going to do what you're looking for, and I don't think you can disable the 10th frame function in conqueror either.

How much time is there between the machine finishing the 1st ball cycle and beginning the 2nd ball cycle? I can see these same people hitting the sweep in the event of a pinjam. If this were the case, I'm sure you would see the way to avoid that problem would involve the bowler in some way.

Thanks for clearing that up Billy.

I would like to add, although it may not be possible in your case, if you could upgrade to MP chassis this would never be a problem. The MP chassis simply runs a strike cycle on the extra ball so there is no extra cycling or sweeps getting hit because of it. We have this setup on our private lanes and I love it, I wish we could do this in the main center.

[MarkyB]

On ours it automatically jumps to second ball before the sweep moves so that they dont get the oppertunity to bowl at the sweep. my problem is that stupid pin waving its finger and bowlers coming up to reception telling me they havent finished and that i've turned it off, by the time they look around its gone, its on for far too long, any ideas how to shift this? spped it up?

[Tablejam]

On ours it automatically jumps to second ball before the sweep moves so that they dont get the oppertunity to bowl at the sweep. my problem is that stupid pin waving its finger and bowlers coming up to reception telling me they havent finished and that i've turned it off, by the time they look around its gone, its on for far too long, any ideas how to shift this? spped it up?

I'm curious to know how this is setup to work on an 82/70 with SS chassis because I'd like to do it to save sweep hits.

[Tablejam]

Ok so after checking some things I have my answer. Ours were not installed this way, there are no cables run to step it to second ball. No big deal easy fix, just did one pair to try it. Just had to run a couple of cables and change a few settings and now this works and I really like it, one less reason for the sweep to get hit and get rid of an extra cycle. Time to do 48 more lanes. My boss likes the idea too and I see why.

[Tablejam]

In open play I have to many sweeps getting hit because bowlers do not look up at the screen to tell them to stop because the machine has to set a full set after the 10th frame is done for that bowler. In other words when the bowler picks up the spare and his/her next ball leaves pins the machine has a slight delay before automatic cycle to set a full set for the next bowler but the bowler doesnt look at the sreen to see it has the stop bowling warning sigh up. I want to get rid of that automatic cycle for open play only. Forcing the bowler either to push the button to get a full set or if they do bowl at least the sweep doesnt drop. I have looked in the conqueor system and I can not find it anywhere to change the setting. I have comqueor 1.76.

Here is the solution.

If you have 82/70 machines with SS chassis with no short cycles and FBOXES...

-A pair of cables (if they are not there already) must be run from the appropriate terminals (ball1/2) in the FBOX to each machine. Two wires for each machine. I used red and black. One wire (black) connects to the GRND terminal on the TAC board the other (red) to the orange wire (L or R #25 or #102) depending on your wiring that goes to the ball stepper button in the back, typically this is an orange wire. In the FBOX on each plug for each machine (J3 for odd J4 for even), the big ones, from the right these wires will go on the 5th and 6th terminals, the black/GRND wire on the 5th one and the red/which connects to the orange wire on the 6th one. What this connection does is the following...

1. Allows the scoring to switch the machine to 2nd ball in the tenth frame
2. Allows the FBOX+ feature to be enabled so on a first ball gutter the machine does not cycle but it will switch to second ball
3. Allows the machine to only have to do one cycle when a 'reset' request is sent from the scoring.

Once the connections are made you go into setup-technical setup-pinsetter and camera for that lane (assuming the bottom shows its an FBOX setup, mine didn't so I had to change it), then in the first column you set the last two settings to this...

pulse w1/2- set this to 0.3, this determines how long the relay in the FBOX closes to switch the machine to second ball
pause- it is suggested to set this to 0.1 (this determines the delay in the cycle start after the machine switches to second ball). On a SS chassis this can be set to 0.0 because the machine can be switched to second ball and cycled at the same time, in fact you can flip ball cycles as much as you want when you start a cycle as long as you stop before the sweep gets to first guard, so setting this to 0.0 gives the scoring plenty of time to switch to second ball and not add a delay in the cycle start.

Then after the settings have been changed reboot the lane control box for them to take effect.

I have been going through hooking this up on our SS machines because it never was and we also wanted the sweeps to not get hit in the tenth frame, and doing this will eliminate that extra cycle. The 'stop' screen will still come up but most people don't even pat attention to it anyway.

If you downlaod the 'pinspotter interface' PDF of Qubica scoring from the QA portal the page for the FBOX will show you exactly where these wires go in the machine, it's pretty easy.

[AMFsupt]

TJ so how would you setup for MP, Six Box, on Conqueror Pro for that. I don't have short cycle. I could get some XLMP's for the short cycle though.

Thanks,

[Tablejam]

If I am not mistaken if you can get the 6box and XLMP to get you short cycles then in the tenth frame it will just run a short X cycle on the fill ball and I don't think there is anything else to do. My fboxes do that on my MP machines with short cycles with no XLMP but I think you need that for the 6box. The one person on here that could answer that exactly for you is BillyT4AQMF. Maybe he is reading this and will respond or you could try sending him a PM. I have asked him countless things about this scoring because we just recently had it installed and im still learning stuff but he is great and is always willing to find out the answer you are looking for. As far as the setup you mentioned im sure he could help with that. And as far as the 6 box I can only go by the wiring diagram as we have fboxes here. If you download the wiring diagram pdf from QA for the 6 box look and see if there is a connection for "ball 1/2 switch" if there is not (which I don't think there is) then you will have to check with billy to see if getting the short cycles with the XLMP will do it for you.

[BillyT4QAMF]

If you have an MP chassis, you need the XLMP (INTKITXLMPSIX) and cable (CABAMF8270XLMP) to connect to the APS connection on the side of the MP chassis. You also need to ground out a RSC on the TAC board (this step wasn't that important to me before lunch today). You just splice the XLMP into the LCOM run for your lane pair. You also need to make sure the spot latch (070001997) is not the original rounded type which is pictured in the current 70 parts catalog. If it is, you need the spot latch kit as well (610704127). With a 5 board chassis, there's a little more to it.

[Tablejam]

Billy to the rescue!

Billy, if you ground out a RSC for a short strike cycle, do you need to have the kit on the spot latch? I thought that was for MP machines that still used respot cell wires and a long strike cycle.

[AMFsupt]

BillyT I still have the respot cell wires on these machines. Oh BTW say hello to Mikey Mullins, Chuck A, and Otey great guys. Oh don't forget Craig Reed too, he probably doesn't know me.