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  • 10th frame spare ?problem?

    Not really a problem more a question out of curiosity. 82-70's, MP chassis, F box, Qubica scoring.

    Player bowls a spare on the 10th frame, bowls `bonus ball` machine scores and does a strike cycle to re-set a full deck and goes to 1st ball

    BUT

    Player bowls a spare on the 10tyh frame, bowls `bonus ball` and FOULS. Machine scores foul, runs strike cycle but goes to 2nd ball

    Is this normal or is there a setting out somewhere. To be fair it doesn't happen that often so is no great problem but it puzzles me.
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  • #2
    Originally posted by tomnimrosjoncar View Post

    Player bowls a spare on the 10tyh frame, bowls `bonus ball` and FOULS. Machine scores foul, runs strike cycle but goes to 2nd ball

    Is this normal or is there a setting out somewhere. To be fair it doesn't happen that often so is no great problem but it puzzles me.
    So extra ball in 10th frame, bowler fouls, scoring records foul, machine runs foul cycle and because of that it goes to 2nd ball for the next bowler.... correct?

    That is puzzling. I don't have the fouls hooked up on our MP lanes so have not run across this. Operationally it seems this is working correctly, the foul signal goes to the scoring so it scores a foul and it goes to the machine so it runs a foul cycle except because it's the extra ball in the 10th the machine is left on 2nd ball. I am not sure but I think there may be a way around this with some rewiring and setting changes. Normally the foul signal goes directly to the pinspotter. Qubica has the ability to do that. I wonder if the pinspotter got the foul signal exclusively from the scoring in this situation it would not cause the machine to run a foul cycle- I think the only one that could really answer this is BillyT. I'm curious to know about this too as eventually I want to hook the fouls up but if this is going to happen I may not. There is also another possibilty I might investigate later tonight, if the scoring can switch the machine to second ball just before it cycles it would not matter if a foul was committed because either way the machine would end up back on 1st ball, but I'm not sure if this would work but I'll try it and post back later.

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    • #3
      So this is what I got so far and I must point out I cannot test this to be sure as I would have to run wiring and I am not able to plus BillyT would have to verify this would work before trying it but here is my theory.

      MP chassis with short cycles and FBOX. Ok what we are looking to do is on the tenth frame fill ball switch the machine to second ball so no matter what the bowler does even if they foul the machine will be on first ball for the next bowler. On the current setup Qubica will run a strike cycle on the fill ball mo matter what happens but if the bowler fouls the machine runs a foul cycle and is left on second ball. Im thinking that it is possible to have the scoring put the machine on second ball for the fill ball, I have been doing it on my SS chassis and it does work. The way this works is with a few settings changes and the wiring the FBOX will flip the machine to second ball an instant before it cycles, so mo matter what happens... even if they foul, when its done the machine will be left on the correct cycle. The wiring from the FBOX to the MP chassis all goes through the APS plug. The FBOX needs to be wired to the machine to change to second ball and this cannot be done through the APS plug. If a pair of wires is run from the "1/2 ball" terminals in the FBOX and ties in with the ball step button on the machine, the FBOX will be able to change cycles, these wires are not present on the MP APS wire harness so they will have to be added and cannot be run through the APS plug. Then in setup/technical setup/pinsetter and camera for that lane you need to tell the scoring to close the relay for this in this situation by setting the "pulse w 1/2" to 0.3, this means the relay to change ball cycles will close for 0.3 seconds. Then you need to tell the scoring this must happen before it cycles the machine by setting "pause 1/2" to 0.1, this adds a slight delay before cycle start to flip the machine to second ball as this must be done before the cycle starts. I believe with it setup this way no matter what happens on the fill ball the machine will be put on second ball then the chassis will just run a short "spare" cycle which means the machine will be on first ball for the next bowler.

      BillyT can you confirm this?

      It sure sounds good, I hope I am right.

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      • #4
        *edit*

        The wiring from the fbox to the machine goes through the a&mc plug and the aps plug, neither of which you cannot run the 1/2 ball wiring.

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        • #5
          After consulting with the expert, BillyT, there is another way to do this and I just tried it and it works. Its going to seem a little odd but basically what it comes down to is Qubica has to have complete control.

          So what you would do is eliminate the foul cycle on the machine and let the scoring handle it. The way to do that is to run the foul wires straight to the FBOX totally bypassing the machine. So, disconnect the wires from the foul light in the a&mc box, disconnect the two wires in the FBOX for foul input from the aps plug, and then run the wires from the foul unit directly to these terminals in the FBOX. Then, go into setup/technical setup/pinsetter and camera for that lane and check the box for "AUTOMATIC FOUL", then reboot the lane control box. Since the foul signal now will go directly to the scoring it allows Qubica to completely control the situation. So now, when a bowler fouls, no matter what frame it is, it will score a foul and cause the machine to run a strike cycle and because it runs a strike cycle it will always end up back on first ball because the machine never has to run a foul cycle since the scoring is handling it and because of that the foul issue in the tenth frame will go away. Its just a little odd because you expect the foul indicator to light in the mask and it will not, yet the machine cycles and gets ready properly for the next ball. Also on a first ball foul the "stop screen" will appear briefly.

          The bonus doing it this way is because the foul signal never runs through the chassis there will never be an issue with fantom fouls caused by the MP board.

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          • #6
            Thanks for the research Tablejam and apologies for a slow response. Think I will print this out and hang on to it for a while and study it - just a bit beyond my experience so far. I suspect that this will also remove another oddity of fouls. That is if bowler fouls before throwing the ball if they wait approx' 10 seconds and then throw the ball no foul is given and machine cycles as normal. But there is a short period where after fouling if the ball is slow down the lane Qubica will score the foul but machine will run first ball therefore second ball score includes BOTH BALLS
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            • #7
              I know what you mean.

              If it is connected like I explained this will go away too... if Qubica scores the foul it will take care of what the machine is supposed to do as well.

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              • #8
                I'm on vacation next week but when I come back I'm going to do this to our private 9 lanes as they have this setup and I will post back on how it goes.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Tablejam View Post
                  I'm on vacation next week but when I come back I'm going to do this to our private 9 lanes as they have this setup and I will post back on how it goes.
                  Ok so I finished doing this and it was easy. All 9 lanes now handle a foul situation in any frame correctly. Its only been a few days but everything seems to be working like it is supposed to.

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