Camera not all pins

[clutchplate]

I caught a camera not seeing pins that slide towards the edge of the lane next to flat gutters. Thus causing respots. I decided to test another lane and had the same results, in fact the camera could not see pins next to flat gutter on both 7 and 10 pin side. What can be done to adjust for this?

[Jfitz]

I believe unless you move the (camera) spot over right (10 pin) or left (7pin) to where the pin slides to the camera probably won't see it. I think you will have to find a happy medium for your adjustment, but I could be wrong. The respots I have for the same issue are very minimal but do occur- I have to move both sides inward so the camera wouldn't pick up the sweep arms when its dropped.

[Steve Stafford (JBEES)]

You could position the box on the belly of the pin as it is wider there and might be seen if it slides over. Only issue you have to be sure of is the sweep does not block the belly of the pin. If it does, you will not be able to set the box that low. See if you can set it there...set a pin off spot witht he sweep down and see if the camera can see it. Let us know what you find out.

[Marty Murphy]

OK, maybe I am missing something here (because I just thought of this, maybe this should be a different thread but its along the same line of questioning)

This is with VDB, six boxes and A-2 pinsetters

If a single pin gets off spot enough that the scoring scores a strike BUT not far enough that the machine will not respot it - the scoring scores a strike then the machine respots the pin, then machine on 2nd ball - the scoring isnt resetting the machine to first ball is it?? I seem to have some days in here where we get a few single pin respots for some reason. Is this the cause?

Marty - Pro Bowl West

[witty690]

If the scoring scores a strike because a pin slides off-spot, the machine should still only cycle once. The scoring shouldn't tell the machine to cycle again to set a new rack. We have the same setup as you, of course your settings may be different. But as far as I know, once the machine starts its 1st ball cycle, the pinsetter runs "stand-alone", and will do as necessary depending on detection.

To see if its the scoring or not, you could cover the camera, so it cant see pins, and throw a few frames. The scoring will see a strike no matter what. Then see what your machine does when it finds standing pins.

As far as the original topic, we adjusted our cameras so the focus is right on the head of each pin. If it slides and the scoring doesnt see it, they just fix the score at the console and shoot the spare.

[Steve Stafford (JBEES)]

I have new pin solenoids, F box and 3QT's. I did not notice the issue of cycling pins away before I installed the new pin solenoids...but mine will sweep the pin away now as the system switches the pinsetter to 2nd ball before starting the cycle when it senses a strike. I see quite a few single pin respots because of this. I am currently experimenting with a way of raising the camera enough to see over the rake board so I can put the boxes on the belly of the pins versus the head. Issue is with the ball detects as I am going to need to mount them on the capping instead of the platform for the camera and camera board. Other idea is to get the camera up higher ...mounted to a standoff high enough to allow the cover to be mounted in place and then the camera on top of the standoff. I will let you know if it goes OK.

[Tablejam]

I have to ask Steve but why not just disable that to allow the pinsetter to run a normal strike cycle other than maybe saving some wear and tear on the deck running a detection stroke for no pins? It would stop the spare sweeping issue wouldn't it?

[Steve Stafford (JBEES)]

There were other reasons for installing the new pin solenoid...foul cycles, 10th frame cycles and no-tap situations. Each of these are handled properly eliminating a lot of rake hits from bowlers throwing balls when they shouldn't. The fact that I have a few respots from this issue is a minor inconvenience compared to the way the machine operates the rest of the time. I think the experiment I am putting together to raise the camera higher on its stand will take care of about 90% of the problems. Just another one of those issues that needs to be resolved to make the whole system just that much better than pen and paper.

The issue of disabling the new pin solenoid on a strike is not something I have found as an option in the scoring system. If it is, someone let me know and I will turn it off to see if there is any improvement. I doubt it will cut back on calls though as these respots I believe are pretty much all OOR's...and that in and of itself would still be a call if it hadn't swept the pin away.

[clutchplate]

You could position the box on the belly of the pin as it is wider there and might be seen if it slides over. Only issue you have to be sure of is the sweep does not block the belly of the pin. If it does, you will not be able to set the box that low. See if you can set it there...set a pin off spot witht he sweep down and see if the camera can see it. Let us know what you find out.

Steve, that sounds like a great idea and I hope it works. Myself and my B mechanic are going to test this on Tues. Will post results.

[Steve Stafford (JBEES)]

I too will post results on Monday or Tuesday on the raising of the camera with the standoff idea. (Monday is usually too busy for experiments )

[Tablejam]

Ok Steve thank you Sir.

[rivmike]

Guys, does your camera count the pin anywhere between the 7 and 10 pins? My Mendes have an electronic window that it is looking in for the head of the pin. My concern with the belly would be loosing the gap between pins and it might see two pins as one.(just a thought)

[Steve Stafford (JBEES)]

No...it looks at individual "windows" or " blocks" that are "aimed" during the calibration sequence. The blocks stay in the assigned position and if there is something in the block...it sees it as a pin. If there is nothing in the block...it sees it as that pin is gone...even if the pin is just outside of the block. By being able to move the block to the belly of the pin, it would allow the pin to move farther before not being seen.

[Tablejam]

To illustrate some of what Steve is talking about...

These are the Q Vision reference dots and by default this is where the scoring places them...




Like Steve said, each dot is where the camera places a box to look for a pin like this...




In this next pic I have moved the dot, therefore the box to the belly of the headpin. Since the pin is wider here there is more of a chance for it to be seen in the box by the camera if the pin moves off spot....





Steve is that what you are talking about?

[Steve Stafford (JBEES)]

Yep...but when the rake is down, the box is on the rake board. I am moving the camera higher in an effort to "peek" over the rake board and still see the pins at the belly. Unfortunately, I had to work open to close Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday this week and never got a chance to try my "experiment". I hope to be able to tackle this Monday as I believe we will not have much business. This week was a bit different if you know what I mean.