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  • Laminate separating

    I have HPL synthetic lanes and I am starting to have trouble with the laminate separtaing from the wood that it is attached to. I have one lane in particular that has separated a good 15-12 inches. Does anyone know if the laminate can be reattached as I am thinking that it can't be because of all the chemical build up in the wood. To make matters worse the wood is splitting about a 1/2 inch from the laminate. This is causing the section to be too high at the joint and it is chipping away at the bowling balls. The worse part is the problem are is right in the middle, so there is really no way around it.
    Steve Heitman

  • #2
    Re: Laminate separating

    Purchase replacement panels and seal the joints after installation and leveling.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Laminate separating

      I agree with King. I’ve tried almost every epoxy on the market without success.

      One thing I would like to add… is before installing….seal the end edges and dowel holes with a couple “light” coats of urethane (don’t get to much in the dowel holes). That way when (not if) your seam sealer comes loose, cleaner and oil won’t penetrate the pressboard.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Laminate separating

        It can be mended - not fixed. It involves raising the delaminated panel, drilling 7/64" holes throught the top or bottom into the space about 2" from the edge, injecting the DBA inject-a-patch into the drilled holes and clamping the panel with angle iron for an hour. Trim off the epoxy that exuded from the gaps, and re-screw the panel down, checking the flat/level/joint difference and shim accordingly.
        In the heavy oil lane area, it's harder to get a permanent fix as the delaminated area has some lane conditioner in it. Impossible to clean out.
        I've been able to effect a long term fix on Brunswick pin decks with this method, but any oiled lane panel - I wouldn't guarantee.
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        This post is not an unpaid promotion of my business.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Laminate separating

          QAMF no longer makes HPL panels. but SPL panels are available. they look identical. mirror image. price and weight however are not mirrored to eachother.

          check and see if you are still in warranty. 5 year warranty i believe on the panels.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Laminate separating

            Ted,

            I have tried the exact method you described except I drilled 1/8” holes and did not use the DBA product. Is it more flexible?

            All my delaminating (so far) has occurred at the fouline where oil and cleaner is not a big problem. I could get the mend to hold for a few weeks but then it would delaminate worse. I’m assuming this is because of balls being dropped there (and the shims underneath creating a void quite a few inches from the line).

            On one panel, I tried a more flexible epoxy from Grainger that did not last any longer than the many other epoxies I tried. Have you had success at the fouline? I’ve even extended the width of the shims underneath (including creating more of a taper to reduce the void) and this did not help.

            I should also mention, that I did use a glue syringe to eject the epoxy…maybe it wasn’t enough force.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Laminate separating

              I have seen this many times on service visits here in Europe & having seen many bodge up repairs too i tend to agree with king & triac that new panels is the only way. However i admit i have never tried to repair them myself.
              Triac- i like your idea for sealing the edges before installation - simple but effective.
              Geoff.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Laminate separating

                we had that very problem with murrey pathfinders.bout
                pulled out my hair dealing with that!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Laminate separating

                  Oh if we only knew in 1979 what we know in 2009.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Laminate separating

                    Originally posted by triac
                    Ted,

                    I have tried the exact method you described except I drilled 1/8” holes and did not use the DBA product. Is it more flexible?
                    I have to admit, I haven't tried it at the foul line. I can tell you though, there should be NO shim under the panel in the first 10' to 12' of the head. There will always be cracking on the bottom where ever there is a piece of shim paper, and many times it comes through to the top.
                    I would try it there though. The DBA stuff is indistinguishable from the AMF as far as I could tell using both for many years. It does not get as brittle as other true OTC epoxies. But it will not displace oil that may keep penetrating the substrate.
                    At the foul line, repairs are ugly. Looks like a repair job. I'd still try it until I got a few to replace.
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                    This post is not an unpaid promotion of my business.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Laminate separating

                      Originally posted by Ted
                      I have to admit, I haven't tried it at the foul line. I can tell you though, there should be NO shim under the panel in the first 10' to 12' of the head. There will always be cracking on the bottom where ever there is a piece of shim paper, and many times it comes through to the top.
                      Unfortunately our synthetic lanes were installed 3-4 years before I got here and that was 13 years ago. We kept our wooden approaches so the drop from the foul line has been up to 0.180” on some lanes.

                      That’s the way the installers did it and we also have thin shims on the sides for cross tilt under the head section.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Laminate separating

                        Originally posted by triac
                        We kept our wooden approaches so the drop from the foul line has been up to <span style="font-weight: bold">0.080”</span> on some lanes.
                        Oops.. <span style="font-weight: bold">Fixed</span>

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Laminate separating

                          If you are starting to see this on a few panels, I would start looking at the rest of the panel joints in your center. You will no doubt find that your "filler" is gone. You should start a project of cleaning out the panel joints and applying a new "filler". I use marine adhesive instead of the more popular silicone as the adhesive lasts much longer.
                          TSM & TSM Training Development
                          Main Event Entertainment
                          480-620-6758 for help or information

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Laminate separating

                            Will the SPL panels delaminate like the HPL panels?
                            If it cant be fixed with a hammer, use a bowling pin.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Laminate separating

                              It is not likely that the SPL panel will delaminate. There is a fundamental difference in laminating 3 pieces of material together with a glue (HPL) and a full thickness single laminating process (SPL). Like others on the market, the entire panel is laminated in a single heat/pressure process so the end product is fully manufacturered by a single lamination. HPL is 3 independant layers sandwiched into a single panel and dependant on the effectiveness and integrity of the sandwiching process. This is the issue AMF dealt with for a few years after they decided to sandwich these layers themselves in Richmond. When Wilsonart made the complete panels for them, they had a long manufacturing history of the process and the 3 layers performed well. Then, to reduce costs, AMF decided they could put these layers together and bought the equipment to do it - then had a learning curve about the process and had issues with the layers coming apart. Later, the panels didn't delaminate. Problem was, no one else in the whole world (other that your center) had the problem. but, the word got around, even AMFs own centers had the problem but weren't on the list of centers to visit to see the product.
                              Now, SPL is the product. Just like Brunswick Prolane, Anvilane, Murray, Xima, VIA, Switch and others, the laminate is made in a single process and will NOT likely ever come apart. I placed a single process laminate piece in a glass of water for months and I swear, it mic'd thinner than when I put it in!
                              So, what you are buying is what ever the salesman convinces you is the best. A glow pattern, a surface marking pattern, a thickness or whatever......
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                              This post is not an unpaid promotion of my business.

                              Comment

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