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  • kickbacks too wide

    During my last inspection I was informed that some of my kickbacks are too wide apart by as much as 3/16".Seems strange that these have been good for 35 years before this year!I was wondering, instead of using jacks ,sledgehammers,or any thing else,can I have new facings made for the existing kickbacks and then put new Facings on them? seems like it will be a lot less work than trying to move the old kickbacks.
    Any help is appreciated
    Ken
    Ken Forst "The meek may inherit the earth but the truly demented will still rule it"

  • #2
    Re: kickbacks too wide

    If they've been OK for 35 years, I think I'd double check the inspector's measurements before doing anything. They've been known to be wrong from time to time.
    Dutch

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: kickbacks too wide

      Keep in mind that every measurement on the deck gives you the total you are off. Check the edge boards and flat gutters for signs of wear and rounding. Something changed this year and it could be a variety of things, I can't remember the exact measurements that can make that much of a difference but will think about it.
      Drill
      Drill

      David Bolt
      Champaign, IL
      USBC Silver Coach
      IBPSIA BOD
      IBPSIA Advanced
      Technical Certified
      Pro Shops

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      • #4
        Re: kickbacks too wide

        KenF2:
        Post the readings you are concerned with, ie, lane 12=60 1/2. Lane 11=60 1/4, lane 13= 60.
        Make certain figures as obtained are wood to wood, do not include kickback plates in this measurement, take the measure at rear of kickbacks, half way up the plate height.
        Take another measure, again half way up plate ,at front around the head pin area.
        Give us all of the out of tolerance lane measures as well as the ones next to them.
        Provided the initial installation was correct, these measures can be adjusted without to much grunting.
        Post the figures you will get the answers,
        Roscoe
        rfm

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: kickbacks too wide

          Ken ... do you have phenolic kickplates??? Alot of inspectors use 3/16 for the thickness of the plate...they double that to 3/8 and then add that to the reading they get on the measurement tool. If you have phenolics, that number should be 1/4 instead of 3/8...making the measurement off by 1/8. Did they even measure the thickness of the plates? Some inspectors ass/u/me all plates are 3/16 thick and don't even bother to measure them.
          Another possibility is that if you have fibre plates ... they may not be 3/16 thick anymore and the added dimension makes them look too wide from wood to wood. Put a straight edge across the point that the measurement is taken (opposite the 7-10 spots). You may see a dip in the facing. If this is true...just puttig a new facing on the kickback might solve your problem.

          Like Roscoe said...more info is needed. Kind of plates you have, any depression in the facings (use the straight edge), actual measurements on each lane.

          Just my two cents worth...

          Steve

          [This message has been edited by JBEES (edited 09-29-2000).]
          TSM & TSM Training Development
          Main Event Entertainment
          480-620-6758 for help or information

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: kickbacks too wide

            Actually, I was one of the inspectors this year, I wasn't at this center last year or any previous years, I was told by some people who were around that the numbers had been fudged for a while.Lane 1 at the across the head pin is 60 7/16's wide, Lane 2 is 60 5/16, Lane 5 in 60 5/16 and lane 7 is 60 7/16.All other lanes were either 60 1/4 or 60 3/8. The next closest Bowling Center to me is in Cuba, so I imagine that before I came in nobody really cared to do too much in the way of checking these things out.
            As long as I know somethings wrong I will try and fix it.

            Thanks for all your input
            Ken
            Ken Forst "The meek may inherit the earth but the truly demented will still rule it"

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: kickbacks too wide

              All of these lanes are well within specks at the back of the kickplates, they seem to be bowing out as they come forward,Looks to me like the original install wasn't very good, and nobody ever bothered to check or change it. The Center was military only until about 10 years ago,so I don't know if was ever really checked before that. All my past inspection reports only go back to 1989.
              Ken Forst "The meek may inherit the earth but the truly demented will still rule it"

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: kickbacks too wide

                So you are saying that because they are too wide at a point even with the head pin...they are too wide?
                TSM & TSM Training Development
                Main Event Entertainment
                480-620-6758 for help or information

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: kickbacks too wide

                  Yes, according to the ABC manual that we were using, across the head pin the kickbacks must be between 60 and 60 1/4.
                  Ken Forst "The meek may inherit the earth but the truly demented will still rule it"

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: kickbacks too wide

                    Ken...the measurement is taken across the 7-10 pin row. Check those dimensions and see what they are. Never seen a "manual" that says to measure across the head pin.

                    Just my two cents worth...

                    Steve
                    TSM & TSM Training Development
                    Main Event Entertainment
                    480-620-6758 for help or information

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: kickbacks too wide

                      JBEES is correct, wood to wood across the 7-10.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: kickbacks too wide

                        JBEES:
                        My suggestion to measure at back of kickbacks, halfway up, as well as at head pin, half way up. was to try and establish where the genesis of his problem is.
                        Most of us are aware of the measure points, established by ABC.
                        In this case, he needs to find the narrow kickbacks, be it the end mchs, or in the centers.
                        At that point, he needs to start adjusting widths to compensate to the out of tolerance widths.
                        If its a bad installation to begin with, (IE) division to division centers over 133 and one half, there is nothing he can do to ensure all come into scope.
                        Thats all I was suggesting in taking a front measure.
                        Roscoe
                        rfm

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: kickbacks too wide

                          Roscoe...sorry , but I was only stating what I thought was obvious. Ken stated "All of these lanes are well within specks at the back of the kickplates". Then stated "Yes, according to the ABC manual that we were using, across the head pin the kickbacks must be between 60 and 60 1/4." The book does NOT state cross the head pin. This is where the measurements were taken. They are correct at the back. That is where they are supposed to be correct. I was not making an attack on your suggestion. I would have made the same measurements you suggested if the measurements were wrong across the 7-10. Since they were not according to Ken, the whole problem is mute. There is no problem except with the ABC inspectors not knowing where to read the measurement. Since he stated "Actually, I was one of the inspectors this year" he can now go back to the other inspectors and instruct them where to take the measurement properly.

                          Roscoe, I did not mean to sound like you didn't know what you were saying nor did I wish to insult anybody...and if I did, I am truly sorry. I was just trying to say ... Ken, your kickbacks are fine...don't worry about them.

                          Just my two cents worth...

                          Steve
                          TSM & TSM Training Development
                          Main Event Entertainment
                          480-620-6758 for help or information

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: kickbacks too wide

                            Ken,
                            It was quite common years ago for associations to fudge numbers. This happened quite a bit and still ocurrs today. I have witnessed it first hand.

                            Pat Mitchell

                            Quote:]Originally posted by KenF2:
                            All of these lanes are well within specks at the back of the kickplates, they seem to be bowing out as they come forward,Looks to me like the original install wasn't very good, and nobody ever bothered to check or change it. The Center was military only until about 10 years ago,so I don't know if was ever really checked before that. All my past inspection reports only go back to 1989.[/QUOTE]
                            Pat Mitchell
                            Brunswick Bowling & Billiards

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: kickbacks too wide

                              As it turns out this was the first year inspecting for all of us, I didn't know that when we inspected. The person reading the manual somehow managed to get on the wrong page and told us the wrong place to measure. So, the kickbacks are fine. Next year I'll make SURE that I know all the places to measure so this doesn't happen again.
                              Thanks to everyone for their input
                              Ken
                              P.S. I got voted in as an inspector on the Friday night before the Sunday morning inspection so I didn't have time to check any of this out before hand.
                              Ken Forst "The meek may inherit the earth but the truly demented will still rule it"

                              Comment

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