More Pin Madness

[Oldsmagnet]

OK, so on a whim, I asked one of our non-local bowlers to swipe some AMFLiteIIs from his hometown alley (If they had a set or two they could spare... just for testing purposes) Said fine... They said fine... They sent him back with 148 of 'em (15 cases, one missing a couple) My first thoughts... "Sweeeeeet" Until I could only find 40 that weren't destroyed. Grr. But I have enough to put in a lane to see how they score, side by side with the Max. Problem being, I'm sure they're ~really~ old... but no idea how many lines/years they've got on 'em... Some were new enough to be G-I-D, but they were so badly cracked it scared me. Most of 'em had the plastic Surlyn (or whatever they use now ) breaking out at the base (Not the bottom ring, although many of those were gone too, but the actual pin surface on the outside of the pin) Seems like a ton of 'em had swollen up somehow, and caused the belly to be odd shape, definately ~not~ round, and many of them with a notch broken out right in the center of the belly. (Looks to be a thick plastic deposit in there, with a groove in the wood surface, perhaps for weight??? Or to keep the shell from separating and rotating??? Either way, much breakage there.) Lots had cracks around the necks, too. but some "sounded" fine. I'll run em for a day or two, just to see, but I'm starting to wonder about the AMF. Seems the wood underneath may be less than quality, judging by the ones I've just received.

Then again, I don't know how old these are. More thoughts/opinions????

[Steve Stafford (JBEES)]

Re: More Pin Madness

So what is your point??? That AMF pins that you don't know how old they are or how they were taken care of compares to know aged and cared for pins...what will your "test" show.

Steve

[Oldsmagnet]

Re: More Pin Madness

Point? Well, not really sure, I guess. I've got a full set that "compares" to ours, externally and physically, ie, they ring clean when you smack 'em on concrete, and appear to be intact. That's all I can really say for our Max's, too, but I know ~they're~ just over one year old. The point of my post, if I were to try to pinpoint that, is to see how many other AMF users experienced these symptoms, and after how long. Did they just come from a really neglected house, (MAN, these things look rough--there's one that's split in half--vertically!) or can I expect ~new~ ones to come apart like this in a year or two? Point part two, if I run these pins and ~still~ see an improvement, that'll be a big point in favor of the AMF.

My concern, though, is that digging through archives, I've seen a few other posts complaining of swelling and cracking. Of course with temp and humidity changes from house to house, that's really hard to predict I realize.

From the negative comment's I've seen posted about the Max's, and my personal experiences with 'em here to verify those complaints (Gonna paint 'em orange for Halloween, and replace some with ~real~ pumpkins... just to see if anyone notices!) I'm inclined to believe fully that AMF kicks their butts all over the deck. But after seeing ~so many~ bad AMF's in the same bundle, it got me concerned, because I've ~never~ seen a Max come apart like these AMF's have. That scares me. I've got a couple dozen cases of old Max's here (dating back 5 years probably) that I can drop in the lanes without detriment. They look like hell, but so do our "new" ones... And after a few weeks, they pretty much blend in. If the AMF's will swell and bloat and crack after a year, I'm more inclined to stay away from them, too. We've got probably 2 or 3 months before seriously looking at new pins, and I'm ~hoping~ the AMF's do all everyone says they do (kick Max's butt!) but after a year or more, I'd like to replace my pins because they look rough, or because I want to... not because they're rotted beyond recognition.

In an old house I worked at, they'd run AMFlites for a while, and still had some in circulation from time to time... but I was too green to know any difference between pins. I do recall a lot of bases coming off, but I don't remember which pins they were from (AMF or Max) I do know that here, we've ~never~ had a base come off a Max, but there's probably 30 of the 150 AMF's missing the bases. Regardless of age, it's an alarming percentage, once again.

(I'd planned on adding some of this detail to the original post, but had no less than five interruptions typing it "Someone needs the phone, are you off the computer yet???" No less than 15 seconds apart... 2 minutes of typing, geez guys, gimme a break...spent more time saying "Yeah, just a second" than I did typing!

[PJ]

Re: More Pin Madness

Olds, I'll bet my bottom dollar that those pins were seconds. We had a set of those a few years back. When they started cracking around the belly and eventially a big chunk would pop out. Asked boss what he paid for the pins, he said he got a real good deal on them. You get what you pay for! Stick with first string!!!!! PJ

[Kat]

Re: More Pin Madness

Olds....

Here's my experience with pins.

MAX: Bases do fall out sometimes. Score very well, less out of ranges. Some head scalping after 2-3 years of continuous use.

Amflite II: Bases fall out less than the MAX. Alot more neck and base cracks here than MAX. More than double the out-of-ranges with these guys due to the bigger nylon ring on the bottom. More problems hanging up in deck chutes due to swelling of pin....even had to adjust snubbers one year due to tightness in turrets.

I've always liked the MAX, because being a bowler, scores have always meant the most to me. I guarantee when doing your "test" you will se many more out-of-ranges with the AMF pins.

Kat

[Guest]

Re: More Pin Madness

Our center has always had AMF pins since it opened (16 years) and we've never seen a pin lose the base ring. If you take care of them and keep them clean, AMF pins will last a LONG time.

[Mike F]

Re: More Pin Madness

In regards to the Max versus Amflite I have had less than desirable experiences with Max pins. Our center has two sets of max's the one set made it six months and then the pins had internal failure where they get that nice pop sound and neck cracking like crazy. The other set has faired a bit better but still have neck failure and loss of the nylon rings. We are scheduled to get Amflites and it will be a welcome change. The Max's run badly in our A2's lots of pins hanging in the buckets especially bad in the summer. I also feel the Max's don't keep a true bowling pin sound as long as the AMF pins do they sound more muffled in my opinion. The symptoms you described on the AMF pins you have sound like what they do after some serious usage like for several years. Who knows where they were stored in that time too. I think if you want to test pins you need to have a pair of each brand new and do it that way.....junk is junk.

[Drillmn300]

Re: More Pin Madness

I have used both and will have to agree that the Max last longer than the AmfliteII's. The bigest difference is the scoreing, with that belly all swelled up it takes the 10 out the the picture, how many honor scores could have been shot if that 1 10 pin would have went down? We filmed a pair with both pins and 9 times out of 10 the belly of the Max would shoot right by the neck on them while the belly of the Amflite's would hit low enough to take out the 10. Same weight pins and the same amount of usage on them. We average about 15 more honor scores per year with the Amflite's and to me they only last about a year. We have always replaced our pins after a year and would like to continue doing it that way. It just depends on what your looking for, dollar wise go with the Max and for scoreing go with the AMflite's.

Drill

[KL Kevin]

Re: More Pin Madness

I run Amflites here exclusively, had a bad experience with the MAX/Vulcans awhile back, mostly bases falling out and neck cracks.

I get 2 years out of a set of Amflites, was filling in sets of MAX's with 3 year old Amflites to get through the second year.

They didn't sound right or last in here, so I'm sticking with AMF on this issue.

Kevin

[Dutch]

Re: More Pin Madness

I’ve found that pins will change from time to time, no matter which company is making them. I used to swear by Amflite’s, but I have changed my tune in the last few years.
This spring we tested several brands of pins. The ones that faired the best this time were Vultex. I used to hate Vultex pins but this year they seem to be the better product. The new set has about 3k games on them & we’ve only lost 3 out of 1000 so far, 2 of the 3 were due to decapitation. All the other brands had that many failures in the first 1k games of the test, & we only tested 40 of each brand.
Dutch

[This message has been edited by dutch (edited 10-10-2000).]

[Mike F]

Re: More Pin Madness

Hmmm very interesting about the Vulcans as they make the Max pins for Brunswick. Would think they pretty much are the same pin being made in the same factory and all.

Mike

[Mike F]

Re: More Pin Madness

Hmmm very interesting about the Vulcans as they make the Max pins for Brunswick. Would think they pretty much are the same pin being made in the same factory and all.

Mike

[Coors]

Re: More Pin Madness

I too use vulcans....seem to have no probs.....used them since '88

[Ed Fox]

Re: More Pin Madness

A) There is no better pin on the market then a AMFLITE, even had a BRUNS> rep. admit to that once!
B)Yes , some of the pins are made at the same plant, but then again a lot of no name brand food at the store is made by big name man. just priv. labeled ie: Kraft and ShopRite but do they taste the same?

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[mexico-R]

Re: More Pin Madness

I think there is not better pin than the Diamond Duramid. We have a 56 lane center, we have tried brunswick and AMF, AMF better than brunswick, but DD outperforms them.
It lasts longer, have a very good action and in general, we are not planning to go back to B or AMF.

Check them out.