Bowling Pins Life

[Dubmechanic]

We have the Amflite II in our GS-10 pinsetters and we have a lot of problems with pins cracking in the middle. Now i've heard u can soak the pins in water so the wood expands to stop cracking wont this ruin the wood? Our pins are over a year old and are falling apart.
Thanx.

[8270king]

Re: Bowling Pins Life

Dub,

Do not soak your pins. To get moisture in your pins you need to have a humidifier in your pit or pin room. The other way to add moisture is to clean them periodicially in a pin cleaning machine but this will not be as effective as the humidifier. Depending on your lineage your pins will only last one year. Our 16 lane center buys one round of pins every August and we throw all the old ones away. Rotating them will add life but if you are high lineage the one round per year seems to work well for us.

king

ps. get a cheap gauge to check your relative humidity and put it in the pinsetter area.

[This message has been edited by 82/70 king (edited 01-18-2001).]

[russ]

Re: Bowling Pins Life

Just an interesting tidbit here

I am quoting from the Brunswick Pin Care Manual

"Under normal conditions, with two sets of pins per pinsetter, a pin should last:
-30 games per day 6 months
-60 games per day 4 months
-90 games per day 2 months"

this sounds like a real cop-out on Brunswicks part' and a way to get around any warranty issues.

Russ

[This message has been edited by russ (edited 01-19-2001).]

[Steve Stafford (JBEES)]

Re: Bowling Pins Life

I couldn't pass this up...90 games per day? Whoa...that's 6 games per hour for 15 hours straight with no stopping. That book must have been written in the late fifties or early sixties for Brunswick to even consider those kind of numbers. Oh...they also didn't have Surlyn coating back then, so I doubt those numbers would even come close to applying. So, when was the book written?

Also...using those numbers, 30 games per day would apply 2700 lines on each pin in 6 months, 60 games per day would apply 3600 lines in 4 months and 90 games per day would be 4050 lines in 3 months. Something doesn't look right here. The more lines per day increases the expected life of a pin? The average life of a pin today should be around 6000 lines. At 30 lines per day, that would be 433 days or 14 months and a few weeks. At 60 lines per day that would be exactly 1/2 of that time...7 months and 1 week. Anybody doing 60 lines per day??? And 90...just under 5 months. 90 would be unbelievable...

Oh, all these numbers are lines per bed per day..in case you were wondering.

And Dubmechanic...never soak your pins. They will be destroyed. King is correct. Humidify the area your pins are kept. Either the machine area if you don't rotate or the storage area if you have one.

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Just my two cents worth...

Steve

[russ]

Re: Bowling Pins Life

Sorry guys but I misquoted Brunswick. It reads 2 months @ 90 games per day. I have edited my earlier post.
Steve:
The booklet was copyrighted in 1996, and shows Max pins and GS series pinsetters.
I think the only centers who were getting 90 lines per day at that time were in the Asian market.

[This message has been edited by russ (edited 01-19-2001).]

[Steve Stafford (JBEES)]

Re: Bowling Pins Life

At times I forget that there are centers outside of the United States and some of them do a very good business...

Steve

[Anchorman]

Re: Bowling Pins Life

Wow! You guys get new pins. We have a 24 lane center that does approx. 30 lines per bed per day. The last time we got new pins was 3 years ago. I had 2 rounds of pins but am now down to just the pins in the machines plus a few spares. When I ask the owner he says we might be able to get new pins in the spring. A lot of good it will do us then. The bottoms are falling off, the heads are scalped, and they are neck checked. I can go to any machine and go thru the pins and pull out at least 6 that are not servicable. They send me old pins from their 50 lane house. They are clean when I get them but they haven't been checked. And then they wonder why honor scores are down.


So, I can tell you for sure that a pin will not last 3 years.

[Steve Stafford (JBEES)]

Re: Bowling Pins Life

Anchorman,
If you were doing only 12 lines per bed per day, you could easily get 3 years out of a pin if properly taken care of. Pins don't wear based on time...they wear when they are bowled on. I have a pin sitting on my shelf for over 10 years now...and besides the slight yellowing of the cover, it looks and sounds like the day I pulled out of the box. I think it made it past the 3 year time.
If you received 2 full sets of pins 3 years ago and have rotated them, you should have gotten around 30 months of use at 30 lines per bed per day. (Do the math) So 3 years is not too far off for the amount of pins you received if you have taken care of them. Oh...that does mean taking care of whatever may be damaging them in the pinsetter/spotter. Too many mechanics think that pins should be replaced based on time...it should be done on lineage. Some houses have it work out to every year, and they would be around 35 to 36 lines per bed per day. This is based on getting 6500 lines out of your pins. But, then again...

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Just my two cents worth...

Steve

[John_Galt]

Re: Bowling Pins Life

You know, I think it has to do with the particular pin. We have several in use with the old ABC logo on them - you know, the chicken laying an egg logo.
Those are pretty old. Others get busted right away.
More generally, it has to do with the brand. Here's how I rank the ones I've used:
1. Twister
2. Amflite II
3. Vultex II
4. Diamond Duramid
5. Brunswick Max
Also, it helps a lot to change them out and let them sit for 3 months or so.
I really don't like cleaning them unless I have to. Water makes wood weaker.
Chad Q.

[Steve Stafford (JBEES)]

Re: Bowling Pins Life

Chad...how do you wash your pins...I clean the Surlyn...not the wood. I don't see how cleaning the cover would weaken the wood. Unless you use a pin cleaning machine...I guess. We just wipe them down while doing our monthly cleaning. We wipe them off and make sure they are clean, along with all pin handling equipment. Helps the cover last longer and get through the machine without hanging up. And they look good longer, helping keep the scorers counting correctly.


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Just my two cents worth...

Steve

[This message has been edited by JBEES (edited 01-21-2001).]

[Drillmn300]

Re: Bowling Pins Life

I have to say that I have never seen a pin last more than a year anyway. We either sell or give to some shooting organization every year. Rebuilts won't work and nothing is better than new anyway, keep the scores better with new pins every year. As far as I'm concerned Amflites are the best carrying pin around with numbers to prove it.

Drill

[John_Galt]

Re: Bowling Pins Life

BEEZSTER-
You hit the nail right on the head. We do use a pin cleaning machine - sort of. We wipe the pins by hand, just using the machine to hold the cleaning solution and spin the pins. Solution, by the way, is a couple gallons of water and a little squirt of Dawn. The wood gets wet at the bottom, which I KNOW contributes to rings busting out and wood splintering just above the ring. Also, little cracks in the surlyn (especially around the belly) let in moisture and it is trapped in the pin, weakening the wood and contributing to belly bust-outs. I really don't like doing this but like you said, it is necessary to keep the pins from collecting too much crud and getting stuck in various places.
I salute you for taking the time to wipe each pin down individually! That must get pretty tedious!! But, you clean off the crud AND keep water damage to a minimum. Nice.
When I own my own center, and I will, I'll have my pinchasers wipe them off by hand.
For now, though, I'm too lazy to do that and the boss is loaded so he can afford some new pins once in a while.
Chad Q.

[Anchorman]

Re: Bowling Pins Life

Quote:]<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by JBEES:
Anchorman,
If you were doing only 12 lines per bed per day, you could easily get 3 years out of a pin if properly taken care of. Pins don't wear based on time...they wear when they are bowled on. I have a pin sitting on my shelf for over 10 years now...and besides the slight yellowing of the cover, it looks and sounds like the day I pulled out of the box. I think it made it past the 3 year time.
If you received 2 full sets of pins 3 years ago and have rotated them, you should have gotten around 30 months of use at 30 lines per bed per day. (Do the math) So 3 years is not too far off for the amount of pins you received if you have taken care of them. Oh...that does mean taking care of whatever may be damaging them in the pinsetter/spotter. Too many mechanics think that pins should be replaced based on time...it should be done on lineage. Some houses have it work out to every year, and they would be around 35 to 36 lines per bed per day. This is based on getting 6500 lines out of your pins. But, then again...

</font>[/QUOTE]

JBEES,
I agree that pins don't wear based on time alone. However 30 lines per day times 365 days = 10950 lines per year. Now divide that by 2 and that would equal 5475 lines per year per round of pins based on 2 rounds of pins and each round staying in the machines an equal amount of time. So in 3 years each round of pins would have 16425 lines on them. Well beyond your 6500 line life expectancy. Also, I did not get 2 new rounds of pins 3 years ago. I got 1 round of pins 3 years ago. The other round that was in the machines at the time was already 2 years old. So you see that some of these pins are 5 years old.

[Steve Stafford (JBEES)]

Re: Bowling Pins Life

Anchorman...you run only 10 pins in each machine? Or do you run 20 like most of us. If you do, then divide your answer by the number of sets of pins you run, which is 2. Then your numbers will more closely resemble the numbers I quoted. I was only trying to make the point that pins wear by lineage and not by time. Alot of guys don't realize that and assume they need new pins every year. Hopefully this helps some of those guys understand that lineage is more important than time.

Formula:
Total lineage on round of pins divided by total number of sets in that round of pins equals the lines per set of pins.

Example...
48 lane center receives 102 sets of pins
They average 30 lines per bed per day
30 X 48 = 1440 lines per day
365 X 1440 = 525600 lines per year
525600 divided by 102 (not 48) = 5153

Or:

30 lines per bed times 365 = 10950
10950 divided by 2.1 (21 pins in machine) = 5214

And since you are running 2 full rounds of pins in your machines...each in the machine for an equal amount of time...that means each round is in only 6 months out of the year and have only accumulated half of the above number - 2607. Seems like 3 years should still be pretty close. You may disagree with my math...you are more than welcome to. But I hope this helps the guys who have been scratching their heads trying to figure this out. I believe we did a thread some months ago about lineage on pins and how to figure it out.


[This message has been edited by JBEES (edited 01-23-2001).]