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New pins and out of Ranges!!!!

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  • New pins and out of Ranges!!!!

    We put in our new amflites on the 16th last month. At the time we put them in we had a total of 33 out of ranges, by the end of the month we had 168. They jumped up by almost 400%! I checked the pin bottoms but everything looks okay there. I just checked the lane machine at the beginning of last month and it's cleaning perfectly. I've never had so many out of ranges with new pins...or old pins even! Anybody else have a similar experience?
    9th Amendment!

  • #2
    Strange that this is happening

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    • #3
      Old subject but, do you do anything to the deck? square bottoms and todays oils need more help than just a clean deck. Maybe during league ( ok) but busy places run 4 more hours after that.

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      • #4
        I did for a while, and do again. I use Legends Pin Deck treatment. I stopped for a while when the deck treatment glued my sprayer closed and I broke the pump trying to get it open. The deck treatment trapped itself inside. I wasn't overly concerned until these new pins started acting the way they did. I just recently bought a new sprayer and wrestled the liquid out of the old one.
        9th Amendment!

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        • #5
          I've never had to use pin deck treatment and purchase new pins every year, I would re-check your cleaning on the pin deck and last squirt distance. We average 1-2 oor pins a week.
          Drill

          David Bolt
          Champaign, IL
          USBC Silver Coach
          IBPSIA BOD
          IBPSIA Advanced
          Technical Certified
          Pro Shops

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          • #6
            we've had this problem to, we just lightly sand the base of the pins and that helps a lot
            SMILE! TOMORROW'S GOING TO BE WORSE

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            • #7
              I too use the Legends Pin Deck Treatment. I put it in ordinary spray bottle. I used to have a nice pump-up sprayer for this but the Legends is very hard on it. So you have to get a new spray bottle once in a while, they are not that expensive.
              (Psalm 37:29) The righteous themselves will possess the earth, And they will reside forever upon it.

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              • #8
                I use No Slide Pin Spot. comes 9 to a pack. Put on all but 1 pin or just put on the problems ones. I check them once a month for wear. Went from 100 oor's a month to around 10.
                amf 82-70
                B2000
                quibca

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                • #9
                  We are having the same out off range issues here since we put the new amflites in. AMF told us our pattern is to long. We cut the pattern by 2ft just to see if it would help and it still is a big issue with out of ranges. Went back to my old set and the normal shot and no more sliding pins.
                  82-70xli
                  conqueror soring
                  kegel lane walker

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                  • #10
                    isnt AMF's answer usually along the lines of "well what you need to do is clean the decks and pins by hand every 10 games and you'll have no problems"

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                    • #11
                      1] oil at 7-8-9-10 pin on deck
                      2] Did you clean pins prier to installing them
                      3] de-glazeing pin deck 4- 10 [ lightly sand 600 grit pin deck ]
                      Last edited by wepauls; 11-17-2012, 04:10 PM.

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                      • #12
                        Can't sand synthetic pindecks according to USBC rep.

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                        • #13
                          Can't coat them either, but if you have to have roller skates on trying to keep up during league you have to do something. I use Uniflex basecoat 6" square around the spot. It's all about less calls for the bowler. If you can put a sticky ring around the spot I feel you can coat them. This will cause the usual flare ups.

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                          • #14
                            I have spoken with QAMF about the issue. They stated that we had too much oil on the pin deck. He asked what color the wood was inside the ring on the base of the pin. I stated that the wood was a dark to black color. He stated that the wood had absorbed the oil that was on the pin deck and that was why it was black. I then asked him if the wood is pulled up inside the ring on the base of the pin...how deep does the oil need to be on the pin deck for the wood to absorb that oil? I figured I need a depth of at least 1/8th of an inch on the pin deck to get the oil to reach the wood. I don't even have that much oil in the heads. Kind of shot there argument down that if the bottom of the pin is dark then you are absorbing oil from the pin deck concluding that you have too much oil there.

                            So I went another route. I created a jig (lathe) that would allow me to take the plastic ring down to the level of the wood of the pin. Int he past, pin cleaners had a "sander" on them that would allow you to touch up the base of the pin when you cleaned them. You don't see pin cleaners much anymore in bowling centers but the concept can still be used. Here is what I came up with...



                            I tracked the OOR's before leveling the ring and after. By doing this, it cut the OOR's by about 75%. The tracking I do now allows me to see each lane individually and I can see when a lane is starting to crop back up and I can take the pins from that lane and cut them down again.

                            Don't get me wrong...it does not eliminate the OOR's...just cuts back on them. There are many issues that effect the ability of a pin to "wander" around the pin deck versus falling over dead. Yes...oil pattern is one of them as mentioned above, but the condition of the pin deck, the pins and even the speed of the bowling ball all have an effect. Pay attention to the pin deck...how tight it is to the foundation, the condition of the surface, and how much carry down you are experiencing. Carry down will allow the plastic to slide on the surface...especially if you have synthetic lanes.

                            On one side note...if you have HPL/SPL pin decks, try to avoid the temptation of using bleach water to control the surface friction as this chemical can attack the surface and destroy it over time...a long time..a couple of years in fact. It can happen and you won't realize the damage until it is too late.
                            TSM & TSM Training Development
                            Main Event Entertainment
                            480-620-6758 for help or information

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                            • #15
                              Great post, Steve.

                              I noticed the same OOR problem many years back at another centre where I worked. We had synthetic lanes and pindecks.

                              In our case, it was older pins where the wood at the bottom of the pins was gradually breaking up so the pins were eventually just sitting on the plastic rings.

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