AMFlites

[DetroitSignal]

Ok guys, we put in new AMFlites last August (2001), and we NEVER rotate or rest them during the season. I checked ALL 54 machines yesterday and came up with 78 fractured pins. Out of 1080 pins, I'd say that was pretty impressive, don't you?? Last season we "tried" the B-MAX, and I pulled out 100 pins by the end of December!!

Here's the problem. We are not buying new pins for next season, do you guys think the pins will last until January without rest?? We are a VERY high-linage house in the Detroit area

Thanks - JOE C.

[BulldogMike]

Re: AMFlites

Joe C:

Have you looked into the new AMFlite Pinnacle pins? They have two year warranty, bumper to bumper (I.e. if you have 78 fractured pins, you get 78 pins replaced). If you are running huge lineage, I would look into these.

Just my thoughts,
Mike

[DetroitSignal]

Re: AMFlites

Yes Mike, actually I did look into those, but the Gen. Manager (owner's son) won't spend the money on them. We are doing a concourse renovation this year and already spending a lot of money. That's why we're not buying pins.

[Mr. 800-R]

Re: AMFlites

I hope the bowlers enjoy their new carpet while bowling on firewood.

That is the problem with our industry....people come to our business to bowl....the lanes, machines, etc should get the most attention.

[capiset]

Re: AMFlites

Hey Joe,
Keep us posted on how things go. I'm interested in seeing just how many pins you have left standing after 20 or 21 months in a high lineage house. With 40 games per lane per day, you end with somewhere around 25,000 games on them. Even if they don't fracture, how much life will you have left in them by the time next season ends? I don't mean to sound pessimistic but I don't think your bowlers will be very pleased midway thru the next season. I hope I'm wrong on this one.

Bruce DeWeber
Capiset Consulting

[deadwood_dup1]

Re: AMFlites

Unfortunatly that happens to alot of people. One year we installed new wood and we were pulling pins left and right. AMF wharehouses there pins when they make them. If your out here in the west like myself when they ship em out from the humid east they shrink by the time they get out here. That weakens the pins and they start cracking at the neck. Stinks!

deadwood

[TheGMan143]

Re: AMFlites

I can't imagine not rotating pins... we have 3 rounds for 30 machines (180 cases + spares), plus a set of semi beat-up wood we use during the slow time in the summer. We try to rotate between the 3 main rounds about every 6-8 weeks or so, depending on the lineage. We have very little in the way of separation or breakage, and the action of the pins stays good.

Sorry to say, but these guys have it right... if your boss isn't going to buy pins and attempt to keep the wood decent, you might just have a bunch fewer bowlers by the middle of next season. A good bowler can hear bad pins in the rack, just by the sound the rack makes when hit with the ball... and I guarantee they will tell you about it. I tell our bowlers I appreciate them letting me know about things like that, then I go in the back, find the broken pin (8 out of 10 times they're right), and replace it with a good one. The bowlers appreciate this, too... it makes them feel like we actually worry about them having the best conditions possible to bowl.

I've had too many "dadda I wanna job" bosses... I think yours has his priorities severely out of whack...

[DetroitSignal]

Re: AMFlites

Guys, I really appreciate all your feedback on this one. I will keep you posted. I'll try my best to rotate what I can. We still have 100 extra sets of Amflites from 1990 that I already ran the last 3 summers. Maybe I'll run 'em again! Also have 70 sets of B-maxes left, but those are useless to run a 54 lane house that needs 108 sets. Also have 120 sets of AMFlite glows that expanded too much around the belly from sitting 2 years (those MIGHT be able to go in for the summer). I have got to be the stupidest B-mechanic there is to voluteer to be in charge of pins. Actually, I'm just the only one who cares about how the racks sound when I bowl. I'm the only bowler out of the 6 of us. [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif[/img] I'll try to figure something out.

[Mr. 800-R]

Re: AMFlites

Screw rotating pins.....buy one set a year......show the old ones the dumpster.....free up your pit area....clean up and organize!

[Steve Stafford (JBEES)]

Re: AMFlites

capiset...the last time I figured lines on pins...I used the formula:

# of lines/sets of pins. (all of them)

At 40 lines per bed per day for 21 months=25620 lines per bed (+- depending on which 21 months you use)
25620 lines / set of pins (I run 2.1 sets myself) = 12200 lines/set...not 25000

My next question would be ...Joe C. - how many lines is on your pins...time is not what makes a pin old...lineage does. You said you have pins from 1990? Wouldn't they be too old to use? Or do they actually have lineage left on them. You say you are a VERY high lineage house...just how high is high? So far you have run them almost 8 months. That would put you at or about 4600 lines if you are running 40 lines/bed/day. Maybe your manager/owner is aware of the lineage on this set of pins and knows he has 70 of the B's to run. You don't have to run the same pin across the house. If you wish to run your B's on you first 32 lanes and rotate your other pins in the rest of the house, you can. And if your manager/owner knows you have a round of pins from 1990, you can run them in with the others. If I had 2 1/2 rounds of pins and money was an issue...I would run them as long as I could to try and get my money out of those pins. Next year, he may flip for the new Pinnacle...you never know. He is the boss and it is his decision to make...not yours. Since you are in charge of the pins...take care of them the best that you can.

I don't bowl either anymore...but I do care more than some of my employees that do bowl about the conditions my bowlers are presented with. Being a bowler is not what makes a good technician. I wouldn't jump to conclusions about your head mechanic not caring...

[DetroitSignal]

Re: AMFlites

JBEES, I thank you for your comments, yes, your right, the head tech does care about this. he's retiring this year, after being with the center since 1964. I am frustrated about some things though..... I have been part-time in the back-end for 3 years now while I go to college full-time. We've got 3 other guys besides me, however that are full time. I have never seen any one of them pull a pin unless it was noticably damaged or the head blew off. When I first started back there, you wouldn't believe the mess of pins we had stacked all over the place (that was when I took over my make-believe department of bowling pin managment). We had about 600 sets of pins ranging from 2 year-old AMFlites to 15 year-old Bean Brothers Spartans and Vultex II's!! I went through everything...got rid of the s*it and organized the good wood by brand name. The really old crap is what I ran the last three summers, LOL! Now, as for the 1990 AMFlites i was referring to , they have been run for 1 season new, 1 season recoated, and 12 summer months (we lost a lot of 'em though). I believe some still have linage left.

On the current pins, I noticed a significant void between the surlyn and the wood belly. If I start pulling 'em out and rest them, is there a fighting chance for them?? Will the wood somewhat restore itself??

We have a morning league shift, a noon shift, an aftrenoon shift, an evening shift, and a 930pm shift most of the week. So lots of lines + open and galactic bowling.

P.S. the reason why i had so many Spartans and Vulcans laying around is because Vulcan replaced 116 sets of Vultex IIs FREE of CHARGE because of the glue problem one year. The pins were saved because we had already bought AMFlites by the time they were replaced.

[TheGMan143]

Re: AMFlites

Originally posted by 82/70 Guru:
Screw rotating pins.....buy one set a year......show the old ones the dumpster.....free up your pit area....clean up and organize!

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yikes... maybe your house has money to burn... most of us don't. For a bunch of wood and plastic that's only purpose is to be destroyed by heavy objects (over and over), those freakin things are EXPENSIVE!

Let's say pins are $100 a case, and usually last 2 years decently if they are rotated with others. To buy enough to run my place would cost $6000, or $3000 per year. If I was to bail the old pins every year and buy new ones, that's $3000 more a year. I can buy a pretty handsome amount of parts and upgrades with that extra $3K... I will most definitely take the extra hour every few weeks to rotate the pins...

[capiset]

Re: AMFlites

Joe C., Sorry about my number of 25,000 games on the pins. I guess I'm from "the old school" and many of my maintenance actions are based on GPLPD...Games Per Lane Per Day. I was just doing some quick mental math and came up with 25,000 games for the lane, not each individual set of pins. My days are spent working on pinsetters...not desktops. Since you won't be getting new pins, technical formulas won't matter much to you, except the one regarding how many cracked pins you have taken out versus how many good pins you have remaining. If necessary, take JBEES suggestion of rotating in some of your older pins to get the newer pins to last longer. Hopefully, everything will work out OK for you.

Bruce DeWeber
Capiset Consulting

[Mark Anderson]

Re: AMFlites

Working on GPLPD...Games Per Lane Per Day , We have run up 25K+ on our pins ( AMFLites) in about 14/15 months .

Man , they are dead &amp; probably went off around the 20K mark .

Bowlers hate them , We hate them , PPU's , Jams on tables , Waste in Bins &amp; under / in the M/C , Cracked bellies , Heads knocked off Etc Etc .

We HAD no option but to push these pins way past their "DEATH" date , as Warehouse couldn't supply us with any .

I suppose the REAL issue here is Bad Pins upset the Bowlers , Cause far too many trouble calls &amp; machine failures / Breakdowns .

That all equals :- LOSS OF INCOME TO THE HOUSE [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif[/img]

So Investing in new Pins at the correct time has got to make / save you money [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif[/img]

Fortunately , we now have new Pins &amp; are resting them for a few weeks &amp; in they go at End of School Holidays [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img] THANKFULLY !

Sorry about the Edits , I messed up the figures , WE DON"T pull 1200 games per M/C per Day , YET ! [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]

[BowlEquip]

Re: AMFlites

Regarding AMF's PINNACLE: The other part of the warranty is 10,000 lines (compared to 5,000 for Amflite II). For our high lineage house, we figured the warranty would be out well before the 2 years if we don't rotate. If we do rotate, how do we verify rotation and actual lineage with AMF? How do they know? Do we have to submit an affidavit signifying the previous season's lineage?
I say, get the expensive pins, run them straight through, keep pulling the bad ones for two years, and screw the lineage!!