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Power Lift - No Power

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  • Power Lift - No Power

    Im a general contractor and also I recently began working as a lane mechanic for an alley who's mechanic of 15 yrs quit on them. So anything I've learn is off this forum and from just figuring it out. My question is. On our 15/16 lanes ball lift, the old motor kept slipping the belt. Come to find out the mount was broken. I changed mounts, and the owner bought a new motor(unnecessary) the old one worked fine. Anyways the motor plugged in works fine. I got it installed in the ball return area and there isnt any power getting to the motor or anywhere in the ball return area. I've been looking for fuses, changed relays, you name it. I'm pretty stumped on the problem am I missing something?

  • #2
    High voltage (should be 120 volts) comes live into the relay box unless something is wrong with the building wiring. If a breaker on the wall is tripped you should have 3 or 4 power lifts not working. Inside the relay box you should have 2 relays and a toggle switch. You should have one relay close when 15 is on and the other close when 16 is on. If neither relay closes check for 24 volts AC at the relay coil terminals and then chase those circuits back to the pinsetters. You may also have a fuse and then 120 volts either directly to a hand dryer fan or through a transformer to a 24 volt hand dryer fan.

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    • #3
      Thank you so much I'll check that tomorrow and get back to you with results

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      • #4
        Just wondering what was the issue after? Having a similar problem myself.

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        • #5
          Just wondering what was the issue after? Having a similar problem myself at the moment.

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          • #6
            And as Mr.B stated, if a breaker is tripped there will more than likely 3 or 4 lifts Not working. That's because the commercial electrician didn't follow the basic unwritten rule of Breaker installation:

            ONE MOTOR, ONE BREAKER When a lift motor shorts out, it takes several more lifts with it. The contractor or design engineer looks at the motor draw on the lift motors which is fairly low and conclude they can connect more than one lift to a breaker. Is it overkill to have one motor on one breaker, NOT IMO. All the residential and commercial wiring we did followed that rule. If you need to work on that lift and do it safely, you must de-energize the circuit by turning the breaker off and testing that circuit to verify it is de-energized. Now you are stuck shutting down 2 to 4 other lifts, loosing up to 8 lanes. Just MO.
            Everything has to be Somewhere !!

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            • #7
              Thanks. It's not a power issue as the will motor run when I activate both relay's manually. I checked the switches on the ball return safety switch and there ok. The fuses are ok on the nexgen control board at the pinsetters.

              The issue started yesterday but when I replaced one of the relays it worked fine for a few hours and then stopped again lastnight.

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              • #8
                When it fails again you'll need to get voltage readings from the relay coils and the motor itself. Without testing you'll only be guessing.
                Factory & Converted A-2 (US, Ger, Jap)
                Comscore ECT, Matrix & DuoHD
                Walker B, Sanction Standard, Original K, Flex Walker & Ikon
                Kegel C.A.T.S

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                • #9
                  Your profile shows GSx so things are a little different than what the replies above list but not by much. Older machines like the AMF and Brunswick machines each operate on their own lane and they don't communicate with each other. For that reason, two relays are needed to turn on the ball lift with each machine turning on it's own relay and then the outputs paralleled together so that turning on either lane or both lanes will cause the ball lift to turn on.

                  With the Nexgen controller, the controller handles a pair of lanes so there is no need to have two relays in the ball lift control box. When either lane comes on the common controller knows that the ball lift needs turned on so it turns it on. Because one controller handles a pair of lanes only one control signal is needed to turn the ball lift on and so only one relay is needed in the ball lift control box. .

                  However, for compatibility with other pinsetters/pinspotters, two relays are still found in the ball lift controller but only one is used.

                  With that in mind, replacing one of the relays may not solve the problem if it's not the relay being used. But since you said you replaced the relays (plural), we'll assume for the moment they are not the issue. You likely have a bad connection somewhere.

                  Since only one relay is used, you need to determine which one it is. If the ball lift will work at all, measure the voltage across the coil of each relay while it's still working, The one that is being used should read around 26 VAC when the ball lift is on. You may need to bypass the safety switch to have the lift run while accessing the ball lift control box. This will tell you which relay you are dealing with.

                  Then when the ball lift stops, check this voltage again. If you are missing the 26 VAC signal, then you need to start tracing it backwards to find where the problem is. Start by checking the voltage at the input and output of the safety switch. Make sure it is present. Then you will need to move on back towards the machine. This gets a little more complicated since a common cable is used for the various switches on the ball return. You may want to test for the voltage coming out of the Nexgen controller at this point to see if the signal is being sent by the Nexgen. If it is then you can eliminate the Nexgen and all the fuses etc. This is done by measuring between pins 9 and 10 on connector P20 of the Nexgen controller. This should show the 26 VAC. If it does then you know the problem is in the wiring.

                  If you don't get voltage going into the safety switch, post back and we can go from there.

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                  • #10
                    Thanks for the info so far. I have the 26 Vac at the red and white cable coming at the bottom relay but it’s not actuating. I swapped over both relays from a working ball return beside it and still nothing.
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                    • #11
                      When you say it's not actuating, do you mean the lift motor isn't coming on or you can't see any movement of the relay internal components?

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                      • #12
                        Both. When I close the relay manually by pushing the outside of the relay the motor comes on.

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                        • #13
                          Any more ideas? I was going to swap out the nexgen boards next to rule that out

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                          • #14
                            Just an update. Changed out the nex gen cpu board and it solved the problem. Thanks for the help.

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