kickers, p.b.l., or humpbacks

[kropy]

lets hear the good and bad on this. I have kickers and we are thinking about the pbl's or the humpback. any feed back would be great.
kropy

[8270king]

Re: kickers, p.b.l., or humpbacks

Kropy

I have 18 years on 70's. I have seen some kicker exits never have a ball stick. I have had others that would never return a ball and then all of a sudden work fine. With todays oils the humpback is king. The pbl unit is good, but to retrofit a pbl to a kicker lift is alot of work. The later pbl units and light ball sensors are much sturdier then earlier units. You can do a humpback in about 5 hours if you stay after it. The humpback of today is much better then the original. They had a problem with the original belt but it is now fixed. The first pair I converted was having pins stick head first between the ball rings and the lift rails - but they have a y piece that fixes that. One caution when you install the humpback - take all their nylon locknuts and soft grade 2 bolts and throw them away. Only use stover lock nuts on the door rings and lift arm assembly or they will vibrate loose.
We have 5 out of 8 pair converted to humpback and we may get 1 call per week on the converted pairs. I know there are some dissenting opinions on ball exits but it depends on how much oil you put out. We have 22ft. of guardian and we use 23 streams of legends hv in our phoenix s. With that much oil we had to do something and the humpback has been a savior.

king

[Guest]

Re: kickers, p.b.l., or humpbacks

I like PBL's...keep the light ball sensor clean and free of oil,and put stahl's70 rod covers on the rails,and they work great

[Guest]

Re: kickers, p.b.l., or humpbacks

Kropy

I have had 14 years with 6 pairs of kickers and 12 pairs of pbl. i converted the kicker units over to the Mini pbl. i like the way they ran. and the fact that they did not have the light ball sensor. witch means fewer moving parts.
that i converted the other 12 pairs over to the Mini pbl. they have been running for the last 3 years and we have had little to no problems out of them.
and as for the converting the kicker to a pbl lift, your first one may take a day but after that you can do it in about 5 to 6 hours.

Tim

[Ron]

Re: kickers, p.b.l., or humpbacks

My vote goes for the humpback, and no recount will be needed. I have had two in now for one year, and so far they are bullet proof. Installation took about 4 to 5 hours. Well worth the money.

[Joe]

Re: kickers, p.b.l., or humpbacks

Without question, humpback all the way. Have 3 of them and love them.

[kropy]

Re: kickers, p.b.l., or humpbacks

hey guys,
thanks for the input. This will help with the boss at the center I work at. We have a 66 lane center and he hates the ball calls we are having. Again thanks for the info.

kropy

[Dutch]

Re: kickers, p.b.l., or humpbacks

Kropy,
25 years ago, the PBL was a good upgrade from the kicker system. Now, 25 years later, the Humpback is a good upgrade from the PBL. If I were in your place (Which I might be soon) I’d skip the PBL & go straight to the Humpback. It's hard to beat new technology.
Dutch

[This message has been edited by dutch (edited 11-29-2000).]

[Jimmy Jam]

Re: kickers, p.b.l., or humpbacks

Kroppy,

I've only seen the humpback once and I didn't like what I saw. I think they will end up wearing out you clutches faster as well as the lower track covers. I have never seen a yo-yo were the ball wasn't spinning, so that tells me the problem is with the rail covers. I think they know that now since they came out with a new style rail cover. First they came out with a bad belt, then that y-switch thing talked about earlier, what next? Its unproven technology. Choose PBL's and switch the short urethane covers to the top.

Many centers in town have kickers and flood there lanes with oil without any problems. You have a problem no doubt, but if its not on all 33 lifts you don't need humpbacks or PBL's. What you need is time. Time to investigate and troubleshoot the problem. Is the lift lowered, centered and angled well? Is the starter pad assy good? Are the track rail to kickback mounts bent? Could you shim the tracks closer to the belt? Are the rubber covers on the bottom of the rails? Is the b.e. motor pulley the right size, or could you put a larger one on to speed up the belt? Do you have the large clutch pulleys? Switching to the smaller ones will speed up the lift. Do you have those crappy blue urethane vantage belts, or a.m.f.s red and black ones? Are you trying to match machine operation to the brand of oil you're using? Maybe a different oil would solve the problem.

The point is. Have you covered all the bases before committing to allowing thousands of dollars going into the center instead of you're pocket(if you know what I mean)?

[Ed Fox]

Re: kickers, p.b.l., or humpbacks

Quote:]Do you have those crappy blue urethane vantage belts[/QUOTE]
Wasn't me that said it this time! I think that the "hump back" is a great idea! But, it pretty $$$$$$ and hasnt had a long enough time trial! If they sold you the first one at a resonable price I would be more interested in trying one, but for $650.00 plus dollars (this includes a belt, $60., a paddle $15., a filler $25., misc. hardware $?. I would hold off for a while till its proven it self!
Ed

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[kryley]

Re: kickers, p.b.l., or humpbacks

Quote:]Originally posted by Ed Fox:
I think that the "hump back" is a great idea! But, it pretty $$$$$$ and hasnt had a long enough time trial![/QUOTE]

I agree with Ed!! At the centre I used to work at, we looked at replacing our aging kickers with humpback, and found that the price was too hefty!!! Especially getting them shipped from the USA to Australia was in my opinion not worth it!!

Have fun!!

[kropy]

Re: kickers, p.b.l., or humpbacks

jonas,
you brought up alot of good points. the problem we have is the proprietor at my center wants scores (300's & 800's)so he is on our laneman all the time. When he puts the gravy shot out there, everyone is happy but me. He has changed oils a couple of times. My ball trouble is not getting the kicker to pull the ball in. I've tried just about every kicker wheel and trick that I know. Now, as soon as we cut back the oil the ball calls go away as do the scores. As for the humpbacks go I'm not sold on them because like you said they have not been around. I did work with on the pbl's for a couple years at the other place I worked at (back in 1984-1986) and they seemed to work good, but then again we didn't use the amount of oil we use today. Well thats all for now and thanks again for the info.

kropy

[Ron]

Re: kickers, p.b.l., or humpbacks

I think if your concern is money the humpback is still a better deal than pbls. I really don't see why the clutches would wear out any faster. It may be a little harder on the ball lift bearings, and shafts, but the "D" bore bearings are bullet proof.I guess if you're not sure it's always good to wait a little longer , because they will only improve as time goes on. As far as not having the ball return problem on all the machines, only do the ones that are the biggest problem.

[8270king]

Re: kickers, p.b.l., or humpbacks

I don't think that the humpback is any harder on bearings then pbl. What is hard on bearings is the 4" spring tension which you must use on both. It only takes about 30 minutes to swap a humpback lift with repacked bearings. No ratchet drive belt, or kicker belts to mess with. I try to repack ball lift bearings every year anyway. Previous house I owned had pbl - we put on stahl's covers on and 1&2 would not get balls up without spinning even with their
thick white covers. That was using a pad Phoenix and clear hi-vis. Anybody who does not want to jump on this new technology put away your Phoenix and get out the whirlybird & strip -n- duster.

king