Down sweeps

[Dutch]

I am having a problem with our wooden AMF down sweeps. No matter how many times I try to align the upper metal portion of the down sweep to the wood portion I still can't keep the balls from wobbling into the UG. I've even tried putting v-belt on the sides of the down sweep. It's helped a lot but I'm still having problems. IF we had "S" type power lifts this wouldn't be a problem but we have the old Magic Circles & sometimes the ball just doesn't have the speed to make it up the up sweep.
Does anyone have any ideas that would help? Please keep your ideas inexpensive I don't have alot of $$$ to work with.
Dutch

[8270king]

Re: Down sweeps

Dutch,
Is this problem with light, heavy, or all balls. In order to apply more pressure, some of the ball lift shock brackets have been flipped to the odd lane side or they were just installed this way. When the ball lift goes up to allow a ball to exit the shock does not have enough travel and the ball is "spit out" and you get the wobble or underground, the ball should just roll over the top of the downsweep. Check and see how high you ball lift will travel, you should be able to lift the lift high enough to allow the ball to go back down to the fill pad. When you flip the upper shock mount to the even lane side you have to use a jam nut under the shock and adjust it so you can get just the upper lock nut to cover a couple threads to allow you to adjust the lift low enough. Do you use stop bumpers? The house I saw this problem at was an older installation and didn't have any stop bumpers. The even lane side mounting is what is used on pbl & humpback.

Good Luck
king

[EDJ]

Re: Down sweeps

[QUOTE]Originally posted by dutch:
Dutch you might want to try the new metal down sweep from AMF part No. 049-006-591 & plastic runner No. 049-006-580. This unit seems to work very well and will fit all types of ball return systems. (subway and surface to subway)and is easy to install.
Approx. $ 90.00 to $ 100.00 each.

ED J



[This message has been edited by EDJ (edited 12-15-2000).]

[Jimmy Jam]

Re: Down sweeps

Hello,

This might help with the speed problem.


See topic: Undergrounds in the AMF setter section.


Quote: In my center they did not shim the downsweeps. The balls would hit the track and bounce. At first I thought it was the bent metal track causing the balls to sometimes go air-born, but why are they all bent across the house? I found out why. The balls were hitting the black track instead of rolling onto them. On the sure-pik installation blue print (in the manual) they show how to shim up the downsweep and brace the back.
I lay a strip of paper on the downsweep between the tracks and hold a ball on it. If I can slip the paper out from between the ball and wood, I know ball is resting on the tracks. It should be resting on the downsweep with 1/32" gap between the tracks.

I shim with paper board and chisel the track slots so the track lays lower.

Just another thing to check, Jonas.

[Pindecked]

Re: Down sweeps

Are the balls jumping the track...or just not making it to the front wheel??

If it's just not making it up the front ramp...I have a 'trick'...

[Dutch]

Re: Down sweeps

The problem is occurring with both light & heavy balls. About 1 out of every 50 balls is wobbling enough to cause a problem & sometimes the ball even ends up back to the bowler via the gutter. The “toilet seats” on some lanes are nonexistent & on the worst ones, the gutters are broken causing the additional problem of pins in the underground.
All of the lifts have stop bumpers. I work with kickers, PBL’s & Humpbacks every day but I’ve never seen the shock on the even lane side. It’s an interesting concept.
The belt that I’ve put on the sides of the wood track keeps the ball riding on the edges & off the center of the track but it isn't enough. The metal tracks sound like the ticket but I'd like to try to avoid spending that much $$$. It will be my last resort.
On the issue of balls being “spit” out of the lift, I have noticed that some of the lifts are turning faster than others. I assume this is due to smaller drive pulleys on the lift. Could this be part of the problem? The AMF book shows a 4 ¼” Sheave. Is that the largest or does someone know of a larger one?
Pindecked, I’m always interested in hearing about “tricks”. If it’s the rubber curtain protection pad from the cushion assy, I’ve already installed them.
Dutch

[8270king]

Re: Down sweeps

Dutch,

The pulleys could make a difference. Take your worst pair and flip the shock mount. The most you will take is 1 hour to r&r a ball lift. Also it is no cost!

king

[8270_mech]

Re: Down sweeps

Dutch,

I may be out to lunch here (and there are those that will say that I never came back), but you may be missing a small piece of your puzzle.

In my house, we have a mix of wood, metal tube and rubber downsweep segments. I've even seen lanes 21/22 operate just fine for two hours during a wall to wall tourney with the rubber downsweep section broken loose at the top and bouncing 2-3" every time that a ball came off of the ball lift.

The babble here is to lead you to the underground tracks. When I think that I have a subway problem, I hijack two or three people and stick them in the gutters with the capping off (or open if you still have hinges). Have a person set balls at the crest of the rail assembly and let gravity pull them down to you. This is the motive force that the machines were designed to use. The people along the track can tell you if they hear any balls jumping, track sections slapping the cribbing or any other noises that tell you the subway is slowing your ball down. I've always been lucky enough to find the loose section or missing track clips within 15-30 minutes.

Remember, as long as the ball makes it onto the track in a reasonably straight line, gravity should get it to the front. The straight part is a fantasy anyway, try rolling a modern ball in a straight line and I'll show you why I paid $200 so that it won't.

[Jimmy Jam]

Re: Down sweeps

Dutch,

You might want to check and make sure your downsweep is secure at the bottom also. It might be shifting around. Those bolts and screws like to come loose.

Is your ball lift centered at the top?

You might have a sticky shock. Sometimes sticking while lift is raising.

Check that the ball lift is solid and nothing is loose. Lift the lift and wiggle it side to side.

Are you using 2 ballwipe rings? If you use only 1 like most of us theres a good chance the cloth is covering one of the rails. Ball rolls over cloth and ball wobbles.

I suppose you could use an old garden hose??? Cut it the length of the wood. Cut little slits in it were you want to put a screw in so you don't bulge the hose out.

Or you could attach some sort of wall for it using old metal kickback facing or scrap wood. spacing it out.

Your upper track rail isn't broken is it? They like to break at the rear.

Bracing the wood like AMF recommends really helps out. Brace it where the toilet seat goes. I'll go into more detail if anyone needs help.

Good luck, Jonas

[Dutch]

Re: Down sweeps

Thanks for all of the suggestions. I’ll try them & let you know what happens. It will probably be after the 1st of the year before I get a chance to really get into it in depth.
I’m spending X-mas week out in the middle of the desert of eastern Nevada. Closest paved road, 2 mi. -Closest business of any kind, 18 mi. - Closest bowling center, about 70 mi. Imagine standing with your eyes closed & loosing your balance because there isn’t a single sound for your mind to focus on to keep your bearings.
Happy Holidays & thanks
Dutch

[felix]

Re: Down sweeps

AMF sheave #000-008-204(3 1/2 dia.) AMF sheave #000-028-771 (4 1/4 dia.) JCP sheave #070-008-204 (3 1/2 dia.) JCP sheave #000-028-771 (4 1/2 dia.) Vantage #000-028-771 (4" dia.) Vantage #000-024-811-2 (5" dia.) I'm running the 4 1/4 sheaves. Would like to know what everyone else is using.

[len marsden]

Re: Down sweeps

dutch,
has anyone tried to sand the downsweep prior to re-coating?
i've seen downsweeps that guys have tried to sand using a round sanding disc attached to a drill and have flattened out the concave shape.
regards,
len.

[Dutch]

Re: Down sweeps

I checked to see which pair of lanes had the fewest UG’s. Then I checked the size of the pulleys on that ball lift. Sure enough, it’s the only lift in the house with 5” pulleys. I’ll be replacing the worst offenders as soon as I can & will post the results. Thanks.
Dutch