Bizarre cycling

[Pietenpol]

Had an interlock issue on a lane. Other guy worked on it over the weekend and thought he had it under control. He didn't note the work done. Got to work this morning and was told the lane ran great for a while but the table motor klixon kicked out. Lane was left as is (with a screwdriver in the gutter) for me in the morning. I started checking things. Reset the table motor and tried to run it from the cam switch. It would hum and cut out. I jumped the sweep plug to the table motor and it ran great. Swapped capacitors....still kicked out. Swapped potential relay....still kicked out. Swapped chassis and it ran great. Contacts looked pretty worn. I jumped the cycle switch in the BE box and let the machine run. After about 5 minutes it interlocked. Not knowing what had been done I started from scratch. Plugged the switch tester in and everything looked good. Adjusted all the cam switches...TB and SB were slightly off. Ran the machine and it seemed to be working fine. Got a cup of coffee and walking back noticed something weird.

On second ball
Sweep goes to guard, waits at second, table gets 9 pin and sets a new rack, sweep returns

first ball
Sweep goes to guard, wait slightly then runs to back of deck. As sweep returns to second guard, table comes down to get pins. Table and sweep return. Lights change to second ball.

I thought maybe bad card, swapped both out and again the machine cycles fine for a minute or so constantly and then gets stuck in this weird cycle.

Took the leads off the cycle switch and bowled a game on it....no issues.

Maybe its a manager circuit thing (haven't eliminated that yet) but it sure has me scratching my head.

[smurtland]

Did you try unplugging the os switch? I have seen it do some weird things when it went bad and it is easy enough to check.

[Tablejam]

Oooh this is a good one. It almost seems like something is loose and the machine vibration is making and breaking a connection. If all the cam switches are fine/adjusted at least close/springs not stretched, I think I would start looking at wire connections and loose metal debris in the front wireway, and also check the wire connections at the cam switches. A malfunctioning OS circuit as Smurtland said will do some screwey stuff. A grounding Manager's Control circuit would hold the sweep or cause a chattering contactor.

[Pietenpol]

The lane ran fine all last night, the issue seems to only occur when I jump the cycle switch in the BE box and let it run on its own. I did forget to add that the OS switch wasn't hooked up. One terminal had pulled loose. The machine cycled this bizarre way with the OS switch connected and disconnected. I had considered the possibility of debris in the wireway but didn't think it was an issue as the lane worked fine for a minute then consistently did this bizarre cycle until shut down and turned back on. As long as it works for bowlers I don't really need to worry about it but I sure am perplexed and would die to figure out why it does what it does.

[Tablejam]

So it runs fine until (it seems) an electronic component heats up then it goes goofy?

[Grit]

One of the fuses/circuit breakers on the chassis regulates the power to the caps. I believe its the upper one closest to the back end. if both table and sweep relays chatter I've had a bad M2 socket to relay connection cause similar issues, except in that case the light/BE/table/sweep all chattered while cycling. If your issue returns and moves with the chassis then I'd give that a looking over.

[Pietenpol]

It doesn't chatter. When it should run a normal 1st ball the sweep and table each act like they should but they don't wait for each other. The table comes down once as the sweep heads back to second guard. They both return to home and the next cycle is a normal 2nd ball. Now that I walk thru it again it seems like the 1st ball cycle acts like a strike cycle but without the solenoid firing to drop pins or engage the table drive. Again, this only occurs when I jump the cycle switch in the BE box for testing....otherwise the machine works fine.

[Pietenpol]

Update on this lane. I went thru all the cam switches/spacing to double-check. No change. This lane usually runs good for a couple hours and then at the end of the night it interlocks 4 or 5 times. I started digging into it yesterday to try and track down the problem. Thought I would look at the OS switch again as its light on the c2 tester seemed a little dim. When I went to pull NC terminal it felt loose. I pulled the switch and it was the older type with the terminals screwed on. Replaced it with a new one but the light was still dim. It would brighten when I moved the wire harness. Replaced the harness with a spare. The c1 plug looked pretty shot so I swapped that out as well. Checked OS and got a nice bright light. Ran the machine and everything seemed normal so I figured they will find out during the night shift if the interlock issue is fixed. Then came my big suprise. This lane would never time out after shutting it off. It would immediately shut down when you turned the lane off. I flipped the switch and it ran for a minute before shutting down.

[seanm]

I think last time I had a machine not timing out i changed out the M relays and problem was gone (as well as front ball returns not turning on, M relays)..

[jim8230]

This sounds like a problem with cam switch SC. Assuming you have SS chassis that is....I've seen this happen several times when the sweep overruns first guard every so often or the switch itself is faulty.

[Pietenpol]

Bumping this problem as I'm still having issues. Towards the end of the night (maybe one or 2 nights a week....this is very intermittent as stated before) I might get a couple interlocks or it might run fine. All cam switches changed, motor changed. When the lane interlocks the sweep is at about the 4,5,6 line and the table is holding pins to set them back. I don't know if the table is heading up or on its way down at this point. I crank the table up to clear the sweep and the sweep jumps towards guard then the klixon pops out. Wait about 5 seconds and hit the klixon again and the sweep goes to guard. Plug the table in, it sets the pins and the sweep returns to home. Doubt its the klixon because it does the exact same thing regardless of the motor. I've also set the sweep to constant run and it doesn't overheat or cut-out.

[Will]

I'm sure you have checked already, but there is no debris of any sort in the wireways? I had a Sweep Reverse switch go bad in the Back Box before that caused some funky stuff. Do you have an auto-offspot/spider relay on this lane? When they start to go bad this sort of thing used to happen to me as well.

[Tablejam]

Bumping this problem as I'm still having issues. Towards the end of the night (maybe one or 2 nights a week....this is very intermittent as stated before) I might get a couple interlocks or it might run fine. All cam switches changed, motor changed. When the lane interlocks the sweep is at about the 4,5,6 line and the table is holding pins to set them back. I don't know if the table is heading up or on its way down at this point. I crank the table up to clear the sweep and the sweep jumps towards guard then the klixon pops out. Wait about 5 seconds and hit the klixon again and the sweep goes to guard. Plug the table in, it sets the pins and the sweep returns to home. Doubt its the klixon because it does the exact same thing regardless of the motor. I've also set the sweep to constant run and it doesn't overheat or cut-out.

If the table drive is under the table shaft (as far as rotation) the table is going down, if it is above the shaft the table is going up and since the table runs in one direction only this will tell you which way the table was going when it interlocked. Also with the sweep, same thing, if the crank arm is below the sweep shaft that means the sweep was running back, if it is above it that means the sweep was coming forward. This can help you determine the position of the sweep and table during an interlock and know which direction they were going and that can sometimes help point to what is going on.

[Grit]

I had this happening because of the wires in the table cable, they were quite old and had lost some insulation in the wireway. the white one in fact was the one in the 16/3 that was touching the frame replaced the cable and knocking on wood I havent seen this problem since.