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    When I first started at my current operating room, we had 16 machines with kickers and 16 with LBS. We replaced the kickers with mini PBL's over a period of time. After the mini installation was finished, I decided to convert the true PBL's with mini's also since I've never had good luck with them. So now I have 32 lanes with mini PBL's. About three or four years ago I was introduced to 6lb balls, and the fun has never stopped. With solid pits and 5 to 6 seconds hang time of the paddle on each side, we still get ping pong. I'm sure you all know what I mean. I've tried speeding up the carpet with the hope of getting the ball over to the door faster and with more force, still no luck. With the added speed the ball gets over to the door fast enough, but when the paddle and ball meet P/P. So now I'm thinking, well maybe it's time to give the LBS another try. So what I'd like is any tips or tricks that may help the 6lb ball problem. I have a couple that I might try, but I'd like to try any of the tried and true ones before I experiment. To all those who reply, thanks in advance.
    The doctor makes house calls.

  • #2
    If the paddle is that slow, pausing almost 6 seconds on each side that should be plenty of time for the ball to fall in. On our machines with the super slow rudder, it pauses about 4 seconds and the ball has plenty of time to fall in. Even if the ball gets pushed out it doesn't go very far due to the slow rudder so no ping ponging. Of course with the LBS the ball will/should always go in the first time.


    • #3
      I'm wondering if you hold the door towards the opposite side of where the light ball is, how long will it take for the ball to get into the lift area. I'm betting it still wont.

      Billy T


      • #4
        After that long delay the 6 LB balls should easily go in. I would hold the paddle of disconnect it so it will not move then try the 6 lb balls, Just a thought is the ball going in but wont go under the lift? If thats the case then raise the lift a little at a time until it does. I have dealt with PBL w/LBS for over 12 years and never had a issue, but even with LBS if the lift was to low then the paddle would still push the ball out.
        amf 82-70


        • #5
          Any chance of a video of what's happening ?


          • #6
            Carpets? or just your lift arms being set too low, the weight of a 6lb might not be enough to set the lift arm off if its getting in there, if its not getting in there your carpets could be stiff at the ball door side.

            I have some here that dont wait around (less than 3 seconds a side) and still throw the 6lbers back!


            • #7
              Your problems never showed up until the 6lb balls...T file the 6lb balls and no more problems. Dosen't seem that hard to me. Zero labor ('cept getting them to the dumpster)...Zero costs. Same problems here solved by the above. Heaviest ball in the place is a 7 pounder. More often then not, if they are using that light of equipment, they are probably also using a ramp as well. So who cares what it weighs. Heavier balls knock down more pins= happier curtain climbers.
              I can't even spell Brunsw-ick anymore!!!


              • #8
                With the paddle all the way over to one side the 6lb ball will go right into the exit on both machines. On one of the machines (even) I've added a cone spring to the front roller to pull the carpet away from the ball door side to give the ball a little drop as it enters the exit. I'm still running these two carpets with standard carpet drive pullies and not the 8800 ones. Going to wait till next week before doing anything else, but ideas are still welcome.

                AMF DOCTOR
                The doctor makes house calls.


                • #9
                  Not your specific problem, but I've had the side fiber panel sag down and catch the top of the light balls slowing them down.


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by dothan View Post
                    After that long delay the 6 LB balls should easily go in. I would hold the paddle of disconnect it so it will not move then try the 6 lb balls, Just a thought is the ball going in but wont go under the lift? If thats the case then raise the lift a little at a time until it does. I have dealt with PBL w/LBS for over 12 years and never had a issue, but even with LBS if the lift was to low then the paddle would still push the ball out.
                    I have to agree with this, as it sounds like less of a paddle issue and more of a carpet/pit/ball lift/lift arm issue.

                    True getting rid of these ridiculous 6lb balls would solve a lot of these stupid problems but unfortunately some of us cannot toss them.

                    If the ball is getting all the way in the door and under the lift sitting fully on the lift arm but then nothing happens and the paddle pushes it back out, that would indicate an issue with the lift arm/connecting rod/ratchet assembly as maybe there is a bind there or it needs a good lubing. I have also found a few times the ratchet crank spring was a little strong for 6lb balls and would not allow the crank to open, slightly stretched the spring and that solved it. The connecting rod could be binding on the even carpet drive belt or rudder tensioner shaft at the ratchet crank, the lift arm could have shifted and is against one of the balldoors, the lift arm could have also shifted to the odd lane side and if conditions are right when the paddle is over to the even side the curved lift arm connecting arm could be binding on the rudder- but this would only show up in this way, the connecting rod ends or lift arm bushings could be dry and stiff, just some things to start. Also the ball lift could be too high where the gap between the ball and belt is so much that the lift arm has to raise a lot before the ball touches the belt, which is fine for heavier balls but not for lighter ones. In this situation it takes longer for the ball to touch the belt and start moving up- because it takes longer there is more time for the paddle to push the ball out, this usually shows up when using light balls especially if they enter the lift area late or slowly. I have found a good gap measurement is 1/8"-1/4" between ball and belt (with a heavy ball sitting on a 'relaxed' lift arm), you want the ball to start up quickly as it falls on the lift arm so it's not just sitting there until it gets lifted high enough but you also want the ball to be able to easily and completely fall in and all the way under the ball lift without bouncing off or touching the lift belt.

                    -wow I just kept going didn't I...


                    • #11
                      We have had the mini PBL system installed for 4 years or something like that anyway... I think the paddle drive is fantastic. Set the tension to push anything and everything that gets in its way, adjust the stroke and then adjust speed to permit especially light balls in. There were a few here that required adjustment of the paddle drive pulley to increase the stroke for longer dwell time, but most are just slowed down with the adjustable sheave.

                      There was one particular tech that (coming from kickers) did not completely understand PBL system, and would adjust elevators far too low and hence blocking the lighter balls... they wouldn't get onto the platform and would be pushed back out by the paddle, but heavy balls would. Hence the misconception at the time that light balls were the problem, but it was merely the adjustments - same went for the simplified paddle system - they didnt understand that the paddle must move anything out of its way (its not meant to 'detect' and give to bowling balls), its designed to remove everything, but to run SLOW enough to permit ball entry.

                      Anyways thats my 2 cents - sounds like a pit problem.


                      • #12
                        With 6lb balls on PBL - you have to shorten the actuator rod by at least a quarter inch. I use to jack the common side of the bounce plate up some with 2 or 3 washers front and back to help out with those bastard 6lb pieces of you know what!!


                        • #13
                          WOW we have approx 40-50 6lb balls across our ball racks here and never have that problem with ping ponging balls, I'd be looking definately at the height of your ball lift,also how sensitive is your lift arm?.. I have all my lift arms here slightly higher than the manual says and never have issues with the 6lb balls, you can't just ditch em kids love using them , yes heavier balls knock down more pins BUT a lot of little kids love to throw the ball the proper way and just simply couldnt with an 8 or 10lb ball....
                          AS REQUESTED....The all new and VERY improved "super cool" Pin_Head with super hip shades.....


                          • #14
                            A new term has been coined for this...."ping-ponging"!


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Tablejam View Post
                              A new term has been coined for this...."ping-ponging"!
                              Hahaha, so we now have yo-yo'n and ping-pong'n


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