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Foul Lights being run off of 8270 Pinsetters

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  • Foul Lights being run off of 8270 Pinsetters

    I have a question about whether this is good or not for the pinsetter.
    I have been told by some that it's not a good idea to do something like this. Currently, we are a 12 lane center, with 1 leg going to 1-6, and another leg going 7-12. Then there is separate electrical coming off of a random lane going to the foul lights.
    Currently, there are six wires going to the foul lights, all blue. (Not sure why not color coded)
    They also run through a relay from a 8270 chassis sitting on the wall in the back. When the relay is on, the foul lights work, when it's off they don't work.

    I wanted to know what you thought about how these were run to start. Second, what you though about pulling off of a breaker from a pinsetter.

    Then also, if something with this system is wrong, what can we do to fix the problem without being too expensive.

    Some background from what I found out. Lanes 1-6. The power (hot) side was connected to Lane #2, and the neutral side was connected to lane #4 electrical.
    Each lane runs off of a 25AMP Breaker, each ball return runs off of a 20AMP Breaker. Lane 7-12 is unknown yet since I have not dug into that.

    Please let me know what you think. I will be posting pictures of what it is wired like in about 20 minutes to give you an idea. Thanks.
    Paragould Bowling Center
    Paragould, AR
    General Manager

  • #2
    Chris, i think the foul units are powered off the old Radaray 82-08 circuits. So whatever turned on the foul units in tha past, they are turned on the same way. Many a center just extended the 115 volts that was powering them on the curtain wall, to the newer units where all the electronics are at the foul line. (read vibration issues now in play).
    So, when these units indicate a foul now, they send a lower 12 vac signal to the machines (via the A & MC box) so the machines wil go through a foul cycle. The machine was designed and built for a foul cycle, so it is not 'bad' for the machines to go through a foul cycle.
    What we saw in installing scoring over the years was the operators didn't want the foul signal extended into the scoring because of all the foul unit issues giving false fouls. So, they'd rather not deal with the added issues of scoring correction, not just spotting pins that were swept off because of the foul cycle of the AMF machine.
    Centers with foul units in repair would usually ask we hook them into the scoring to indicate the foul on the scorer screen, as well as the machine going through the foul cycle.
    In these days of sue or be sued, I'm one promoting foul units on all the time someone is bowling. Whether you have it indicate a foul on the scorer will not matter much to the judge, who should inquire as to whether or not you warned the bowler not to cross the foul line when they broke their arm.
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    This post is not an unpaid promotion of my business.

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    • #3
      They are not hooked that way though. They are literally hot wired through a lane and wire nutted with electrical through one of the junction boxes above one of the lanes.
      Paragould Bowling Center
      Paragould, AR
      General Manager

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      • #4
        180.jpg181.jpg182.jpg183.jpg184.jpg

        Picture 1: Horizontal wiring is the leg going to lanes 7-12. vertical wiring is the power for the foul lights.
        Picture 2: This is the wiring above lane 10 which goes to the foul lights. blue wires come from junction box over lane 10 to this wiring which goes to the relay. brown wires go to the ceiling, and the silver metal cable cover goes under the lanes.
        Picture 3: This is the picture of the relay used to control foul light power.
        Picture 4:Relay connections if you could figure it out
        Picture 5: Showing you where all the wiring is going.

        Let me know what you think!
        Paragould Bowling Center
        Paragould, AR
        General Manager

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        • #5
          Well from an electrical safety standpoint if any of those exposed connections are 115V they need to be inside a metal junction box with a cover including the wires that are taped and the relay terminals....especially. Actually all 115V connections need to be in a covered metal junction box and the wire conductors or individual wires need to be inside metal conduit. I would start there.

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          • #6
            ...And call for a fire alarm test.
            I can't even spell Brunsw-ick anymore!!!

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            • #7
              That's OSHAS wet dream.
              I've had enough of hope & chains.

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              • #8
                What type of foul units, and I would unhook the units power ASAP!
                Why yes, we wax them everyday!

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                • #9
                  It does look to me the power for the foul units used to be on the curtain wall and someone used the relay to extend the 115 to the foul unit up front. The relay base, by code, needs to be mounted in an enclosure instead of being out in the open like it is. But as far as being powered from the pinspotter/pinsetter, it won't use enough power to have an adverse affect on the machine's current draw - at least not trip a breaker because of the foul unit load. But the way the wires are exposed on the relay base, looks like it would be easy to short some terminal leads and make you have a bad day. If the fouls were powered by the machine circuit, I'd add a 1 amp fuse to the 115 volt hot lead to protect the wiring to the relay, and thus to the foul unit.
                  I'm interested in how you turn on the foul units. Is there a switch up front? Do they come on with either machine without any other switching? Does the scoring control them?
                  Normally, the relay means there is a low voltage circuit control somewhere, say a toggle switch up front that may control one or more units with each switch.
                  If there is a low voltage circuit to the desk, there is a transformer somewhere for the coil of the relay(s). I've installed a single transformer and had it feed many relays for remote control of the foul units, and usually a switch for each lane pair.
                  Also, the relay in your photo could be a 115 volt coil, and no transformer. So each switch at the desk is switching 115 volts and not low voltage (like 12 or 24 volts). This is not likely since you would not need a relay, just run the 115 volt switch leg to the desk and directly back ti the foul unit lead instead of through a relay.
                  You can check out the voltage of the relay by putting the leads of a voltmeter across the OPEN switch at the desk (foul units off), set on AC volts. This will tell you if there's a transformer somewhere.
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                  This post is not an unpaid promotion of my business.

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                  • #10
                    Some crazy wiring there!

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                    • #11
                      Disturbed1

                      NeverSeenThat
                      If at first you don't succeed, try, try, again. Then quit. There's no use being a damn fool about it." -W.C.Fields

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