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8270 low volt signal to the ball return

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  • 8270 low volt signal to the ball return

    Where does the low volt signal to the ball return to turn the BR on/off come from on an 8270 typically?
    I have a BR not working when the lane is on and I don't want to just replace a relay if there could be a connection problem at the pinsetter/AMC Box not getting the 12V to the relay.
    And I also want to know this for curiosity as I have only been on these machines ten months.

    Let me know, thanks.
    Paragould Bowling Center
    Paragould, AR
    General Manager

  • #2
    If it works with one lane and not the other, swap the chassis as the circuit uses terms 9 and 11 on the M2. Of course it could be the .5 amp fuse is blown.
    Necessity IS NOT the mother of invention. Laziness IS the mother of invention.

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    • #3
      You need to check for voltage at the relay for that lane where it turns on the ball return. The wires could be damaged in the underground causing this. If there is voltage at the relay then the issue is the relay or from there to the ball return. If no voltage there, and chassis swap does not work, check for voltage in the A&MC box (I forget which numbers are for the ball return but they should be labeled "ball return" or "ball check"), if no voltage in this box then the issue is from this box to the A&MC plug or in the machine. If voltage is present here but not upfront, then the wire is damaged in the underground or where it leaves the A&MC box and travels down the ramp into the underground.

      If you have plug in relays upfront for the ball return you could swap them to see if the problem changes, that at least would tell you if it's the relay or even if voltage is getting there to turn it on.

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      • #4
        I believe the low voltage as 24 VAC for the relays not 12 VAC.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by 8270tom View Post
          I believe the low voltage as 24 VAC for the relays not 12 VAC.
          Unless its something goofy then yes the control voltage is 24VAC.

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          • #6
            I got 4 ball returns right now that dont shut off... ever. Kinda the opposite of your problem lol. I used to have 5 but jumped into one and after hours of tracing wires and going through the painful learning process, i found smashed wires in the underground that were shorting, causing the return to be on all the time regardless of weather or not the lane was on
            Giving bowlers less to complain about, one lane at a time

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            • #7
              Chris the 70 doesn't send any power to the ball return but it does return the power signal back to where it came from to complete it.
              70's MP/PBL/LBS,Q-Score
              Prolane Walker sport

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              • #8
                first of all what kind of ball returns do you have is the question, and what type of chassis is it? There are different wiring diagrams that I can think of.
                Thanks,
                Rick

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by keeth View Post
                  Chris the 70 doesn't send any power to the ball return but it does return the power signal back to where it came from to complete it.
                  I'm glad somebody said this!
                  Regards,

                  Billy T
                  bthompson@qubicaamf.us

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    A&MC box 1 & 2

                    Also M1 in a MP Chassis, when manually pressed will turn a s-pic on.

                    Prolly a Bad socket to your relay. Does your relay show signs of burnt pins?
                    Last edited by felix; 06-25-2012, 02:02 PM.
                    If at first you don't succeed, try, try, again. Then quit. There's no use being a damn fool about it." -W.C.Fields

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by felix View Post
                      A&MC box 1 & 2
                      Actually, it's A&MC 3,4 for Power Lift Low Voltage. A&MC 1,2 are for Cycle buttons from Power Lifts (also commonly tapped into for Ball Detectors and Scoring Cycle).
                      "Where are we going, and why are we in a hand basket?"

                      --Kat

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                      • #12
                        My Bad!

                        No Cat fight Here < >
                        If at first you don't succeed, try, try, again. Then quit. There's no use being a damn fool about it.&quot; -W.C.Fields

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                        • #13
                          A & MC wiring
                          It's 3 and 3 in the A &amp; MC. And there is no voltage supplied to the lift, only an open switch. The controlling voltage is within the ball lift (or external to it).


                          TED
                          If at first you don't succeed, try, try, again. Then quit. There's no use being a damn fool about it.&quot; -W.C.Fields

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                          • #14
                            Ted


                            Re: A & MC wiring

                            It's 3 and 3 in the A &amp; MC. And there is no voltage supplied to the lift, only an open switch. The controlling voltage is within the ball lift (or external to it). Either '70 will close the switch.
                            So you can start touching wire underground pairs together to see which pair turns on the lift. IE use needle nose to touch 3 and 3 together. Of course if none do, the wire is broken, or the lift control box (if AMF) or relay (if Bruns or ZOT) is bad.
                            One more thing, if the lift (I'm assuming you have a power lift), is a bruns, the 24 volts for the relay in it has to be supplied externally - the Bruns signal conversion kit puts the 24 volt transformer near the lift control box - maybe it's bad. If it is a custom job, the 24 volts may be in the back on the curtain wall and just a pair of wires are spliced directly to one of the relay inputs on the lift box.
                            If at first you don't succeed, try, try, again. Then quit. There's no use being a damn fool about it.&quot; -W.C.Fields

                            Comment

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