Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

"The 4 pin..... FROM ULTRA-SUPER HELL!!!"

Collapse

Adsense Classic 1

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • "The 4 pin..... FROM ULTRA-SUPER HELL!!!"

    I swear this thing is playing with me, I just know it is and it must be having a damn good time watching me fail at this over and over.

    Backstory:

    This particular lane for years had a pan with one missing ear and the Stahl's pin orientator thingy and a SUPER SLOW pin elevator, plus the distributor had a not so grippy belt. It worked o.k. but still had issues. So I was finally able to put aside some time to "attempt" get it to run like it is supposed to. I changed the distributor so I was sure it had a good carriage, clutch, straight trip arms, etc., put a new grippy belt on it, put the correct size p.e. sheave on to bring the elevator back up to normal speed (it was excruciatingly slow before), set up the pin guide rail, put a pan on that has both ears because I do not like those pin orientator things (sorry Stahl's), all that stuff. Keep in mind as you read this the problem is most definitely NOT anything to do with pin orientation, spacing, or the distributor clutch, just assume the distributor as a whole is completely good.

    Fast forward to the present:

    So, since this was done this lane still seemed to have random pileups around the 2-4-7-8 area with seemingly no explanation- I really hate that kind. Over a period of time I investigated and corrected things here and there, bent pinguides, shock mounts, checked the orientation about A HUNDRED-THOUSAND TIMES, all that stuff. This particular distributor came from another center so instead of having the correct spacer on the bolt for the lateral arm it instead had two bushings, and because of this there was not enough travel to the corners, seriously NOT ENOUGH. Okay no big deal, added a few washers and got that fixed. It ran fine for awhile then started having problems with the second pins ramping off the first pins in the bin, going past the pin butt guides and jamming in the table. This was happening at the 2-3-and 5. No surprise at the 2-3 since I added sideways travel. Okay, again, no big deal I'll add extra pinguides at the 2-3 to stop the pins, always works, but the 5 was another story and was beginning to get perplexing. So I watched, and I watched, and I watched, and it occurred to me the second 5 pin was ramping off the first one because it seemed the distributor was a little too low, (and what I mean by "ramping" is the second pin would land on the first pin towards the neck of it and sail off of it like a ramp completely missing the pin butt guide and going over it, getting stuck, then falling into the table). I decided I needed to get the second pin to come off the distributor higher and later so it would hit the pin butt guide more than the other pin that was already in there. Okay so another adjustment, kind of annoying now but the blood pressure is still ok. So I tinkered with the height a few times and finally settled on having it high enough that the second five pin lands nicely but not too high that the pins bounce around too much in the bin and as an added bonus the pins got off the trip arms smoother at the corners.

    So, more time passes and it runs fine for awhile and.... it starts up again. This time it's having issues at the 4 pin area. I recheck everything I have done before as my blood pressure starts to climb, distributor height, centering all that stuff but I could never catch what exactly was going on. Sometimes it would run for days with nothing- all on my shifts of course, other times two or three pileups in a night. At this point I'm getting extremely irritated that this is STILL going on, I mean WTF? So I spent a couple of shifts just sitting there, watching it, watching it, watching it- getting bored, watching it- feet hurting from standing behind the machine for an hour at a time, watching it- getting very thirsty now, watching it- starting to get a headache, (I know, I need a GoPro!) and then I FINALLY see what is happening. Oh, this is a good one, are you ready for it? Here it comes...- Alright, so at the 4 pin bin location you have the two angled pinguides, the pin head spacer, the pin butt guide, and the two pinguide ears. Normally when the second pin comes off it hits the outside pinguide ear (most of the time) and the pin butt guide which guides it straight into the bin and you would think that this pin, this object coming at the FLAT butt guide from the 10 side would have some momentum so when the butt of the pin hit the butt guide the momentum would cause the pin to want to carry itself towards the 7 side- towards the OPPOSITE side of where it came from.... well guess what.....NOT THIS LANE! I have seen these machines do some crazy, wacky sh*t before but this is a new one to me. For some reason I have yet to figure out especially since everything looks as it should, the second pin comes off the distributor, hits the pin and butt guide, sometimes doesn't even touch the outside pinguide ear just the butt guide only and bounces STRAIGHT BACK IN THE DIRECTION IT CAME FROM!!! And also bounces over towards the 10 side and if it hits just right this pin ends up laying sideways, try to picture this, with the butt of the pin sitting on top of the outside pinguide ear at the 4 (almost under the catwalk) and the head caught in front of the inside angled pinguide laying on top of the stringer, I could not have placed it there by hand any better myself...again....WTF??? Moving the distributor center and reducing a bit of travel seems to make no difference, it runs fine for awhile then this happens.... now I'm about to blow up!!! All this time, all these adjustments only to have this stupid nonsense going on and it's at this moment, as I am typing this, feeling my stress level start to rise just thinking about what I have gone through to get this to run better that I realize before I ever did anything to this lane, before I ever touched anything, the EXACT SAME THING WAS GOING ON--- FOREVER!! Basically I feel like all I did, all this work, just made it cause pileups more now.... oh brother.

    And here is the worst part, bet you thought it couldn't get any worse but you would be wrong and yeah, there is a worst part to this.... I can't go higher with the distributor because then the pins will bounce around too much and end up all over the place in the bin causing these kinds of issues times 9 (already been there), and I can't go lower (as explained) because then I'm right back to where I was with the problem at the 5 pin (already been there too) and possibly breaking a cup or table yoke.

    What the hell am I supposed to do? Something is weird here but it must be so small, so slight that it's not visible to the naked eye because I'm not blind but I can't see wtf is causing this to happen. It's such a stupid simple thing causing this problem and it seems to defy all logic and everything in the known universe and try as I have I cannot seem to stop it. What is it- what am I missing- what haven't I tried yet- what is the magic fix? Please let me find it now so I can end this nightmare because I don't want to play this stupid game anymore, my sanity can't take this foolishness much longer!

    I'm running out of ideas and this cannot keep going on like this- I will not allow it!

    At this point I'm going to try a micro adjustment to lower the distributor, not enough to cause problems at the 5 but just enough to ease some of the bounce at the 4 and when I say micro I mean litterally splitting a washer in half, and just for the hell of it I'm going to change out the 4 pin butt guide and put in some stiff bin shock mounts- actually I'm now starting to think that has something to do with it, I don't know wtf but at this point I'll try it.

    Well that's my little melodrama for now and I tell you this much.... when it come to the machines VS. me I always win! Sometimes it's not right away but you can be sure that I will prevail!--- hear that lane #43.... YOU CAN'T WIN!


    Soooo... anybody else have something like this happen? i think it would be fun to read your story and it would help my sanity a little bit too.


    (I think this is probably the longest post I have ever written)

  • #2
    TJ please take the distributor,bin and entire backend assembly and move it over to 41 or 45 and post back with the results,JUST KIDDING!!!!
    Man that is a lot of work and watching to see no relief.
    70's MP/PBL/LBS,Q-Score
    Prolane Walker sport

    Comment


    • #3
      I take off the corner pieces and make batwings

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by keeth View Post
        TJ please take the distributor,bin and entire backend assembly and move it over to 41 or 45 and post back with the results,JUST KIDDING!!!!
        Man that is a lot of work and watching to see no relief.

        That wont work anyway. You have to move the distributor to 41, The bin to 42 and pin wheel to 44. that way you know which is screwing up. Once you figure it out then move them back because i like to keep assemblies on their own lanes!
        Sometimes we have to do stuff to get by....Just go back and do it right when the "by" has passed!!

        Comment


        • #5
          Lol,

          You know I would be good if it was a clutch or bin shock mount or belt problem or something, I would actually be happy about, so happy I would do the pee-pee dance because I could see what was wrong but this thing is jut f-ing ridiculous!

          It's the weirdest thing too, how can something hit a flat object at an almost 45 degree angle and go back the same way it came from.... it's just wrong- my whole universe doesn't make any sense anymore.

          Ok so move the bin to 41, pinwheel to 42, distributor to 44, table to lane 1, sweep to lane 60, and just for the hell of it I'll swap out the boards, relays, and all the pins in both C plugs to random lanes all over the place, flush a couple of toilets, light some things on fire, and then run around with arms frantically flailing on the roof until I trip over something and fall off of the side of the building hurtling toward the pavement below and my certain doom. Oh yeah I forgot, move the shuttle to lane 5.

          Comment


          • #6
            Wow, sounds like an absolute nightmare! The pin bouncing back seems odd, won't hurt to change the pin butt guide rubbers as you say. I'd also remove the outside pinguide ear (the one held on with the same bolts as the butt guide) and see if that makes any difference; it might stop the pin getting stuck in that position. My machines don't have the outside pinguide ears on bins 2,3,4,6......we removed them years ago after catching funny little pinfeed problems like this on camera. (If I hadn't seen it happen, I wouldn't have believed it was possible!!).

            Comment


            • #7
              Instead of it hitting the flat of the pinguide is their any chance that it could be hitting the bend of it if you had the good old pulsating u-joint?
              70's MP/PBL/LBS,Q-Score
              Prolane Walker sport

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Stoctster View Post
                we removed them years ago after catching funny little pinfeed problems like this on camera.
                This should be the moral of the story. Being able to watch a problem occur literally on demand is invaluable, especially in a larger house. Can you inagine how much aggravation it would have saved you if the next time the problem occured you said to yourself "aha, I finally got it on tape", instead of "oh no, not again".
                Regards,

                Billy T
                bthompson@qubicaamf.us

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by BillyT4QAMF View Post
                  This should be the moral of the story. Being able to watch a problem occur literally on demand is invaluable, especially in a larger house. Can you inagine how much aggravation it would have saved you if the next time the problem occured you said to yourself "aha, I finally got it on tape", instead of "oh no, not again".
                  How much is a GoPro?

                  I really don't want to remove the outside pinguide ear as I have been trying to replace the missing ones (hmm may be something to that) but if it comes down to it I will get rid of it, the u joint looks good but im going to give it the "twist test" anyway to be sure.



                  Originally posted by 8270king View Post
                  I take off the corner pieces and make batwings
                  If this is the mod I'm thinking I forget exactly what it is but just for fun I'd like to see it again. Can someone post pics or a link to it?
                  Last edited by Tablejam; 07-20-2012, 07:39 AM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Tj that describes PERFECTLY to a T what is going on with my lane 4... have changed dizzy twice, gone up, gone done, gone left, gone right, added washers to safety link ball joint, took em out again..... no matter WHAT i try I get the 8 pin (2nd pin) occasionally rotating around on the lower pin getting caught on the trip arm... it's really pissing me off... I almost lose sleep over this bad boy, it is consuming me!!! I could handle it if it piled up every few minutes, would show me there is something major wrong but it can go 4-5 days with nothing then 5 in a mater of 30 mins then drop off to nothing again.....
                    I FEEL your pain TJ.....
                    AS REQUESTED....The all new and VERY improved "super cool" Pin_Head with super hip shades.....

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Pin_Head View Post
                      Tj that describes PERFECTLY to a T what is going on with my lane 4... have changed dizzy twice, gone up, gone done, gone left, gone right, added washers to safety link ball joint, took em out again..... no matter WHAT i try I get the 8 pin (2nd pin) occasionally rotating around on the lower pin getting caught on the trip arm... it's really pissing me off... I almost lose sleep over this bad boy, it is consuming me!!! I could handle it if it piled up every few minutes, would show me there is something major wrong but it can go 4-5 days with nothing then 5 in a mater of 30 mins then drop off to nothing again.....
                      I FEEL your pain TJ.....
                      Yes yes I totally get that....it really pisses me off too....WTF! WTF! WTF! sometimes this one the head of the 4 ends up laying over the 8 then the 8 hits it turning it sideways even more. Its infuriating....OMG SO MUCH RAGE! *@&$%#&#&$&#%@$$&$&%#%$&#&$%&&#%#%&$*#!!!!!!!

                      Don't ya love it.....distributor up/down/left/right/washer out/washer in.....for nothing!

                      I have come across the same problem with the 8, if I remember right I ended up going up with the distributor and down with the shuttle, I actually went higher with the dizzy than you normally would.
                      Last edited by Tablejam; 07-20-2012, 07:51 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        @ my place it is lane 14, for 2 months I feel the same pain. Took this week my camera to work and placed it on that lane today. Haven't seen the gost yet today

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          TJ here is the solution: up up down down left right left right b a start
                          you had the right idea going up down left and right but you got the order wrong!


                          If it was me I'd lower it back down and figure out something on the 5. Lanes 36 and 39 and 6 and 17 will do this crap, one at a time they go into spells where they pile up a bunch, usually when I'm trying to fix something else. And usually right as I get back to the lane/bench and pick up tools again it piles up, but if you sit on it its perfection. Then poof! no problems for hours or days. I think that's why they are named after women
                          When you know what to do, everything is easy.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Grit View Post
                            TJ here is the solution: up up down down left right left right b a start
                            you had the right idea going up down left and right but you got the order wrong!


                            If it was me I'd lower it back down and figure out something on the 5. Lanes 36 and 39 and 6 and 17 will do this crap, one at a time they go into spells where they pile up a bunch, usually when I'm trying to fix something else. And usually right as I get back to the lane/bench and pick up tools again it piles up, but if you sit on it its perfection. Then poof! no problems for hours or days. I think that's why they are named after women
                            Lol, then you get bonuses if you add.... triangle - square - X - X - circle - L2 -R2 - L2 - up - down -start - smash controller into tiny little pieces!

                            That's the problem, I'm not sure what I can do about the 5. When I had it lower and it was ramping there I tried moving the distributor center left, right (ugh) but it made no difference and I cannot add pinguides here or anything to the butt guide as the headpin needs to be able to get by it. So screwed...

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Guys you got the order all wrong its....you put you right hand in you take your right hand out, you do the hokey pokey.....I do this little jig a top of my machines and everything smooths right out......hee hee hee.

                              I need to get me one of those GoPro cameras and a tripod, looks like they start at $299 and go up from there. I can't iron out some of my problems unless I see what is going on.

                              Comment

                              Topic Starter RibbonScript

                              Collapse

                              Adsense Classic 2

                              Collapse
                              widgetinstance 666 (Related Topics) skipped due to lack of content & hide_module_if_empty option.
                               

                              Well this is a first.

                              We all from time to time have one of those “wow I’ve never seen THAT before” moments. Well today was one of those for me when my night tech texts me to say lane 16 is out...
                               

                              Ball return wheel guide roller removal.

                              Hey guys, i could just use a bit of advice trying to get this part out, first time I've had to do one of these. I got it to move a few turns but its come to a point where it has...
                               

                              Even old mechanics find something new.

                              All my years working on these things I never had this happen…… until last week. ...
                               

                              82-90XL Frontend Gearbox Parts - Rebuild Woes

                              We have 5 of the 088000365 replacement gear kits on the shelf, and I pulled two gearboxes off machines earlier this week, so I thought I'd try my hand at rebuilding them and save...
                               

                              Prolane damage

                              Can this be repaired?
                               

                              LED Ball Lights

                              Made an LED conversion for A2's and Frameworx masks. It can also be modded for the Harmony masks to accept 2 x 5mm led's and/or a 12v supply. Once I'm happy with the performance/design...
                              Working...
                              X