Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Powering on lane blows the wall breaker...every time.

Collapse

Adsense Classic 1

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Powering on lane blows the wall breaker...every time.

    120.4V at the BE motor plug if disconnected from the motor the lane stays on. Have swapped SS w/omega tec chassis and both chassis are performing "badwrong" cycles. the relays run the table and sweep fine when actuated. the "respot cycle" is respot height with the solenoid firing and spot latch engaging. so half height with rotating cups. the "spot cycle" is the table performing spot action the sweep clears the deck and the table performs spotting action again.

    rewired the machine side C1 very possible I could have some wires in the wrong place as I got interrupted no less than 30 times. did do it 1 wire at a time but things happen. also noticed a weird wiring on row 3 there are 6 pins in the chassis and only 5 on the machine socket side. this missing pin is on every lane I checked.
    When you know what to do, everything is easy.

  • #2
    The missing pin on the 3rd row would be for the respot solenoid, used in older B machines. Row 3 should have the first four pins closest to the bowler, the blank spot and then the another pin in the 6th spot. If you accidently put it in the 5th spot instead of the 6th spot, then you would get the solenoid firing on a respot cycle rather than a spot cycle.
    I think the best thing as far as the back end motor would be to either compare the wiring of the C1 plug to a neighboring machine or a wiring diagram. The back end motor hot wires feed into TS-19 in the wire way and come out in the C1 plug at row 4 pin 5 and depending may also feed into row 4 pin 6 as well to help spread the load over two wires instead of one.

    A handy trick someone taught me while rewiring a plug is to keep the pin extractor tool in the slot where I took the wire from until I put the wire back into the spot it belongs. I learned that one the hard way, after rewiring a C1 block and causing a fire at the plug. Needless to say I spent a few hours or so I didn't plan on fixing up the machine wiring and chassis.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by AMF Brian
      A handy trick someone taught me while rewiring a plug is to keep the pin extractor tool in the slot where I took the wire from until I put the wire back into the spot it belongs. I learned that one the hard way, after rewiring a C1 block and causing a fire at the plug. Needless to say I spent a few hours or so I didn't plan on fixing up the machine wiring and chassis.
      I've had enough of hope & chains.

      Comment


      • #4
        Yes I did use that trick. I also didn't get interrupted the top 2 rows but still went to compare the wire colors to the neighboring plugs. This lane has a history of randomly throwing the wall breaker. and the solution was to turn everything back on but the pit, flip the wall breaker and then you could turn the pit on and it would stay on. I thought I had solved that when I noticed the top row/pit wires were in bad shape on the machine side C1, now it doesn't run at all. The machine side C1 in row 3 has the 5 sockets in line so the 6th IS blank. something else is wrong there but thanks for the info.

        I also metered the motor plug even though its a newly rebuilt motor and gearbox. same resistance as the neighboring motors and this motor is wired correctly and worked fine, until I thought I was hot **** and was going to mess with the C1. with the breaker off compared the hot and neutral at the main power plug and receptacle, didn't meter that but ill give it a shot tomorrow.
        When you know what to do, everything is easy.

        Comment


        • #5
          Some breakers, especially the old pushmatic, will weaken the more they are tripped. If you dont have one, you can ask an electrician to test the current draw with an 'amprobe' on each motor lead to see if they are drawing amps within the nameplate rating.
          Also, there could be something binding in that machines pit. Not likely to be distribuor else youd have issues with jams, but the lift and/or pit can have something stuff adding to the current draw of the motor.
          .
          .
          .
          This post is not an unpaid promotion of my business.

          Comment


          • #6
            I made a jumper cable and ran the BE off the next lane over. quiet and smooth as silk. Its gotta be something machine side in the wiring.

            reckon its time to rip it all up and check continuity. is there such a thing as a C1 destination diagram?
            When you know what to do, everything is easy.

            Comment


            • #7
              Continuity is not the problem. If a wire is broke, it wouldn't run at all.
              I'm going out on a limb and suggest you check that the hot and neutral wires are reversed somewhere. Start by seeing which one is hot in the Russel Stol before you plug it in. Then see if the hot matches the black wire in the machine side of it, which goes over to the TS at the end of the wire channel.

              There is a C1 wiring output diagram - here on the site.
              http://www.bowltech.com/forums/showt...854#post105854
              .
              .
              .
              This post is not an unpaid promotion of my business.

              Comment


              • #8
                Ted thanks a ton for the link. I mentioned that the main russell stohl on lane 25 the hot and neutral have already been checked and are wired correctly. green ground at the back, white to the left and black, to the right--standing at the front of the machine naturally. I was unclear above:

                if the pit motor is plugged up...POP goes the breaker
                if the pit motor is unplugged I can read a constant 120.4V at the plug in the back. The cycle issue was because I had 5 pins in line in row 3 not 4 then skip one. my stupid mistake

                I eliminated the motor/gearbox as the cause by making the jumper cable as in a cable separate from lane 25 in every way except that it plugged into the motor and coming from 26 runs the pit just fine......hmm as I type this I'm going to compare the motor plugs to another lane and see if that could be where the switch is...Not sure if it matters at the plug or not? You are certainly right either a hot/neutral mix up or something is grounding out, hence I was going to check continuity.
                When you know what to do, everything is easy.

                Comment


                • #9
                  You can change them in the BE control box - small terminal block in the front/left to try it.
                  .
                  .
                  .
                  This post is not an unpaid promotion of my business.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Tight pinwheel belt? Relieve the gearbox of the burden of the pinwheel and see what happens.

                    I had a machine once, halfway through league and after 3 years in operation, started blowing the wall breaker. It would start fine if I unplugged the pit motor, and I read good voltage at the plug, but when I'd plug it in, light out. I released tension on the pinwheel belt (which was a bit short) to check for a bind in the pinwheel, and forgot to reapply the spring. And it started fine next time I tried it. Changed the belt and all was good.
                    9th Amendment!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      As far as wiring the hot and neutral in the RS, BE motor, or any 120V device goes, it's always going to be the same....

                      Hot/black goes to the terminal with the GOLD screw or pin

                      White/neutral goes to the terminal with the silver screw or pin

                      Ground goes to the terminal with green

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        That's true TJ if and only if there are 3 wires, my question about the plug was since its only 2 wires could the motor tell a difference in neutral and hot. I swapped the black and whites on the terminal strip in the BE control box. No change

                        traced the black pit wire row 4 pin 7 out of the chassis to TS-19 and back to the BE box, all continuous. no breaks nothing in the wireway at all now but wires. HMM my top C1 doesnt match the diagrams in color. I have:

                        blank black blank black red blank black red

                        Got some more tracing to do tomorrow.
                        When you know what to do, everything is easy.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Open the control panel and look to the left at the bottom of control panel you will see a wire junction. This has been grounded out by loose nuts or bolts!
                          richardcooley

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Come in one day before the place opens and swap the wall breaker with another lanes breaker. Make sure to cut power to the entire panel before doing it. Ive had 3 different lanes that needed new wall breakers because they became weak and were popping constantly.

                            It should only take you maybe 5 mins to do but will let you know if the breaker is bad. I say come in before the place opens because when you shut down the panel youre basically shutting down a good portion of the house.

                            Ive changed i think a total of 5 breakers already in my center because they got weak/went bad and thats just in the past 2 years
                            Giving bowlers less to complain about, one lane at a time

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Yep. I have had to change breakers because got they got weak and old too. Like someone else said, check the terminal block in the control panel. Only two wires because the machine frame acts as the ground for the motor.

                              Comment

                              Topic Starter RibbonScript

                              Collapse

                              Adsense Classic 2

                              Collapse
                              widgetinstance 666 (Related Topics) skipped due to lack of content & hide_module_if_empty option.
                               

                              Well this is a first.

                              We all from time to time have one of those “wow I’ve never seen THAT before” moments. Well today was one of those for me when my night tech texts me to say lane 16 is out...
                               

                              Ball return wheel guide roller removal.

                              Hey guys, i could just use a bit of advice trying to get this part out, first time I've had to do one of these. I got it to move a few turns but its come to a point where it has...
                               

                              Even old mechanics find something new.

                              All my years working on these things I never had this happen…… until last week. ...
                               

                              82-90XL Frontend Gearbox Parts - Rebuild Woes

                              We have 5 of the 088000365 replacement gear kits on the shelf, and I pulled two gearboxes off machines earlier this week, so I thought I'd try my hand at rebuilding them and save...
                               

                              Prolane damage

                              Can this be repaired?
                               

                              LED Ball Lights

                              Made an LED conversion for A2's and Frameworx masks. It can also be modded for the Harmony masks to accept 2 x 5mm led's and/or a 12v supply. Once I'm happy with the performance/design...
                              Working...
                              X