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  • very random double pin feed

    I have a few lanes that are having issues with very random double pin feeds off the distributor.. They are amf 82/70.. these vary throughout but usually the 7, 8, 6, and 10 pins are doubled.. I sat a camera down on one of these lanes to try to catch it, and this is what I found.. I cut the video down to take out the previous 52 cycles before the jam where everything worked like it should.. I am not sure where to fix, since it does happen so randomly.. any help would be appreciated..


  • #2
    BAsed on what I see at :41 and 1:15 it looks as if your eccentric rollers could be out of adjustment due to failure to index. When the trip rocker stop blade is trying to go under the stop on the clutch plate, it looks as if it's hanging up. Check to ensure the carriage tubes are not bent or warped, and go through the roller adjustments, then finally adjust the trip cable.
    "Where are we going, and why are we in a hand basket?"

    --Kat

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    • #3
      Clutch spring might be a little tight too.

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      • #4
        I thought clutch tension or dry pinion too at first, but then I looked and didn't see any hint of a sway going from 3 to 2. But, yes too aggressive on the spring will do that too. Good call 8230.
        "Where are we going, and why are we in a hand basket?"

        --Kat

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        • #5
          P.S.; it looks like you're missing a roller bearing on the 10 side indexing lever
          "Where are we going, and why are we in a hand basket?"

          --Kat

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          • #6
            It looks to me like it fully indexes then the trip arms hesitate coming back up, possibly due to clutch tension, or a dry or worn stop blade, or even a sloppy trip stop rod assembly- the type with a roll pin and not a bolt, which has become sloppy causing the stop blade to ride more on the edge of it instead of the flat face resulting in difficulty indexing. I would start with that stuff.

            1. Is the stop blade 'dry'
            2. is the stop blade worn
            3. What is the clutch tension set at- 3/4 of a turn, 1 full turn, what?
            4. When was the last time the clutch was serviced
            5. Is the trip stop rod assembly loose or sloppy where the casting is attatched to the rod

            Looking at this more I notice the pins have some difficulty pushing the trip arms down, suggesting there is a bind with what I mentioned above or something is dry. When the pins go off the end of the distributor, it should always be a nice fluid motion- the pins should never pause or slow down while pushing down the trip arms and falling off the end, it should be nice-smooth-continuous. The fact that several pins pause and almost stop while they try to push down the trip arms suggests even more that something is going on in the stop blade area. Besides what you see happen in the video, the pins hesitating anywhere on the distributor will cause problems with spacing and eventually feeding.

            3:10 is an excellent example, the distributor is at the 5, a pin comes to the end but cannot push down the trip arms down enough so they spring back up actually pushing the pin backwards!

            Yeah you are also missing a roller on one of the trip arms too, please install it.
            Last edited by Tablejam; 09-04-2012, 06:52 PM.

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            • #7
              what would be a normal service life for the stop blade on a clutch?.. I would think that more clutch spring tension would wear out the blade faster than a weaker spring.. I have noticed that there is some wear on the blade.. but would that explain the randomness of around every 50 or so cycles? I went through and serviced all my clutches, and stop blades, and made sure they were oiled last week. I will check for any play in the casting, but I read that there is a spring on the 7 pin side of the distributor that changes the tension on the fingers. does this have anything to do with this issue?. I am also thinking stop blade, but what other places on the distributor affect the tension of the fingers? will get specific settings after league here in a little bit..

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              • #8
                Originally posted by mikelong_300 View Post
                what would be a normal service life for the stop blade on a clutch?.. I would think that more clutch spring tension would wear out the blade faster than a weaker spring.. I have noticed that there is some wear on the blade.. but would that explain the randomness of around every 50 or so cycles? I went through and serviced all my clutches, and stop blades, and made sure they were oiled last week. I will check for any play in the casting, but I read that there is a spring on the 7 pin side of the distributor that changes the tension on the fingers. does this have anything to do with this issue?. I am also thinking stop blade, but what other places on the distributor affect the tension of the fingers? will get specific settings after league here in a little bit..
                -the spring on the 7 side is the return spring for the trip arms, this is to bet set a 1/2 of a turn ONLY.

                -if kept properly lubed the service life of a stop blade/clutch plate and pinion and sleeve can/should be several years.

                -discoloring of the stop blade from use is normal but if there is wear enough that you can actually feel it then it is time to replace it and probably the clutch too, the stop blade can also get bent forward which can cause binding.

                - the clutch tension should only ever be set so that the distributor gets to the 10. In other words, start at 3/4 of a turn, if the distributor hesitates or does not make it to the 10 then add 1 notch until it does (usually this falls within 3/4- 1 full turn), any more clutch tension than is needed to get it to the 10 is too much and will only heat up the clutch more and wear it out sooner- also too much clutch tension can cause this issue.

                - a 'dry clutch' or that is to say a dry pinion/sleeve can cause excessive tension on the clutch as a whole which can also cause the trip arms to behave this way.

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                • #9
                  by actually feel it, you do not mean this bad.. granted this is the worst one i have pulled off.. but you are saying that any noticeable wear on them is past due to be pulled off? I also notice that when the stop blade is actually just sitting there, it is making little circles on the arm of the casting, which I would assume would be wearing it out even faster, and hint to a bad shaft.. and it think my "normal" spring tightening was 1-11/4 turn.. so I need to back that off... I guess I just got frustrated with everything being loose, I over tightened and thus the error.. I will try all of these fixes, and see how that goes.. and also.. the stop blade below, was only a few months old if that..

                  P9030004.jpg

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                  • #10
                    not to be confused.. the stop blade above was not on a lane, i was just keeping it as an example.. the one on my lane causing an issue, is rubbed and smoothed down, but nowhere near this bad

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                    • #11
                      Be patient.

                      Well I look at the wear this way, if the wear is to the point that it is causing the assembly to not function properly then it is probably time to replace it. Comparing a new stop blade to an old one if you feel a difference then it is worn but it may still function well depending how much wear there is. A bent distributor shaft can also cause issues with the clutch operation and wear, having said that I have a few bent ones that never have problems.

                      Get the clutch and stop blade good and lubed and go from there. It is also possible that there is just too much clutch tension, you could back off of it until it does not make it to the ten then add a notch until it does. 3/4 to 1 turn is the desirable range but sometimes you need to go a few notches past that. Is the return spring on the seven side set at half a turn only?

                      Check out everything suggested then post back.
                      Last edited by Tablejam; 09-04-2012, 08:14 PM.

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                      • #12
                        The stop blade could be bottoming out and hitting the pinion gear when it starts to advance - the reason I say this is after the 1st pin goes it it appears that the trip arms do not go all the way up before the next pin arrives

                        1. Adjust eccentrics for parallel carriage
                        2. Adjust trip arms / stop blades
                        3. Bend up rear trip rod mounting bracket assy. if needed so stop blade does not contact pinion

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                        • #13
                          I went through and reduced the spring tension an all my lanes about 1/4 to 1/2 turn, and when it would not index between the 6-10 spots I turned it one notch until it was a fluid motion throughout.. I also noticed it reduced the amount of pressure needed to trip the fingers, and therefore did not stall the pins on the end of the distributor... will try this setup for a while and see where it gets me.. thanks for the help..

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by mikelong_300 View Post
                            I went through and reduced the spring tension an all my lanes about 1/4 to 1/2 turn, and when it would not index between the 6-10 spots I turned it one notch until it was a fluid motion throughout.. I also noticed it reduced the amount of pressure needed to trip the fingers, and therefore did not stall the pins on the end of the distributor... will try this setup for a while and see where it gets me.. thanks for the help..
                            Generally that is a good starting place for setting that tension and by making those adjustments you now see why that is important.
                            Sometimes you may have to add a little more tension than normal, which is fine, except it may cause difficulty in indexing and quicker clutch wear- but usually if it does not hinder the indexing it should be fine. Well good, sounds like you are getting a handle on it, let us know how it goes.

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                            • #15
                              Since doing the adjustments, I have reduced my number of pinjams from an average of 7-8 a day in a 16 lane house to lets just say that I have not seen a pinjam in 3 days and counting!

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