Pins Head First

[masternut]

Any tips on eliminating "pins Head First" off orinetor pan? Have eliminated most all of our troulbes except for head first.
Any tips would be greatful.
Thanks in advance
Peanut

[Dutch]

Re: Pins Head First

If the pins are loose in the pinwheel as they approach the dist. move the kidney guide up. If they are being held tight enough, move the kidney closer to the orientor pan.
Dutch

[Guest]

Re: Pins Head First

Grind down the tips of the cleats on the offending lanes.They get worn and form a little ball on the end causing the pin to stick in the wheel too long. Especially on humid days.

[GPS]

Re: Pins Head First

I second what Dutch had to say. I am running the new Twister pin and had to adjust a few o-pans and kidney pans. On some machines they want to feed head first. Good luck guys

[8270king]

Re: Pins Head First

I have the cure to this problem !!!! Take a spare kidney off an even machine and install it on an odd machine, or vise versa. ** Before you do take some of the radius off the top of the kidney with a bench grinder and bend the sharp corner down with a crecent wrench just slightly while in a vise. This must be dont to allow bottom 1st pins to make the corner.You need to mount the kidney to the pin wheel using 5/16 bolts and space out the kidney with sleeves from a cushion shock. Do not use the rubber mounts!!! Adjust the kidney so that the orientor pan finger goes under kidney flange.
The head first problem came about when we all installed slow down pulleys. All 16 machines in our center are converted this way and dist. jams are non existant. The pins ride up the pinwheel on the rolled edge and fall of easily with this modification.

[Jimmy Jam]

Re: Pins Head First

82/70 king,

I've heard of tinkering around a bit, but YOUR NUTS!!!
Jonas

[Guest]

Re: Pins Head First

Dutch is write
but you also wont to check the pin seating rod. if the pin is not seated all the way in the pin wheel the head of the pin will stick out away from distributor pan. and when its released its going to come out head first

Tim

[Guest]

Re: Pins Head First

Tim:

If your pin guide is properly adj then the adj of your pin seating rod is not that crucial due to the fact when the pin hits the guide it should streighten it out. We have all ours adj and you can see the pin guide rock back and forth as a pin goes across, a head first pin makes a nice clank noise as it drops onto the O-P. Beautiful

deadwood

[Guest]

Re: Pins Head First

Hey deadwood

I think you have some parts of your machine confused the. pin guide as you called it
DOS it have a wooden roller on it? if so that is a Pin Ejector the seating rod is rite above it its mounted with a rubber mount just like the one you will find under your kidney pan. as for the seating rod its an importune part of the machine it gets its name from the job that it performs. hey here is an ideal watch it you will see what i am talking about. lol


[This message has been edited by TIM (edited 11-06-2000).]

[This message has been edited by TIM (edited 11-06-2000).]

[Guest]

Re: Pins Head First

HAH! I guess AMF should revoke my "B" status because a "pin guide" sure doesnt sound like a "pin ejector" now does it? Seems to me they put that lil pin seating rod there due to the fact that they removed the mechanical pin holders that were on the 82/30 on the 82/70 design. So, what does that say? they used the pin guide (aka Kidney) take its place on the way to the O-P. Now if memory serves me correct, when I last adjusted my pin guide, i held back the pin seating rod and to my amazement the pin self adjusted itself and perfectly droped onto the O-P. Also, the only reason it was put on there is cuz that is the only spot where a pin "might" fall out. Oh yea I know what im talking about here... sorry if i corrected you

deadwood

[Ed Fox]

Re: Pins Head First

Has any one checked out the new pin oriontator that Sthals puts out? I havent checked them out yet but I hear their PHAT! IM going to call them tomorrow and recomend that they post abanner on the site! They have some top notch products! Not to mention that Tom Sthal is one of the most noligible pinsetter mech. IVE talked to!
Ed

[Jimmy Jam]

Re: Pins Head First

Masternut,

Try using that video camera set-up you talk about to find out whats going on, then let us know whether the pin is tipping head first into the pan, pin is resting sideways in pan, or pin is jumping the pan posts.

[masternut]

Re: Pins Head First

82/70 King,
Please e-mail me some step by step instructions on what you have done,or a scetch a picture also.it is hard for me to visualize what you have done.
We too have slowed down pinwheels and the head first problem showed up.

We have vidio of the stops sometimes pin swings out early at the 1 and 5 postions and others fall short when distributor is at far conner pin.

We are average 3-4 pin jams a day(42 lanes at 28 games per bed a day linage)Mostly head first was the root of problem

Thanks
Peanut

[This message has been edited by masternut (edited 11-08-2000).]

[Jimmy Jam]

Re: Pins Head First

Masternut,

I get it.

Here's a rundown of what I've learned so far:


a) What dutch and ffejbowl said.
b) Pin elev. might be stalling (smaller pulley).
c) Loose ring tube (carriage bolts).
d) Sloppy elev. bearings (top or bottom).
e) Loose or missing pin holders (cleats).
f) Wrong pinholder got installed (there's odd & even).
g) Loose or uneven dist. support (side-side).
h) Pit/elev. not level(tilt)[longshot].
i) Dist. pivot post loose or not level (side-side).
j) Missing thrust washer on post.
k) Turn-pan to close to elev.
l) Rear runner cracked or bent (bounce).
j) Rear dist. pin guide rails worn (where belly of pin hits).
k) Distorted turn-pan.
l) slick dist. belt (pin spins).


I know it's a long list of reasons and I don't know it all. The latest thing I've been doing is replacing sloppy ring tube bearings. When there is play in the pin elev. a pin getting kicked out by the ejector can wobble the elev. and send a pin head first. Not to mention speed bowlers shooting pins back that slam into the elev.. On some machines I got bent ring tubes so I have to adjust the kidney for the tightest pin pockets, this results in loose pockets on the other side of the elev.. So I had to adjust the dist's. up by adding extra thrust washers on the big pivot posts and raised the posts using washers on the roll pin.

I hope some of this helps.

Jonas

[masternut]

Re: Pins Head First

Thanks for the info...I will keep you posted.

Peanut