8270's "Short Cycling"

[8270_mech]

Recently two (#2 and #38)of my 70's have started doing what we have dubbed "short cycling", the table seems to be stuck in respot mode while the cups rotate half way and then the table takes the pins back to the top. This is a most annoying problem and they only do it every thirty frames or so and they refuse to do it two times in a row (or when anyone is looking at the table drive assembly). We have tried adjusting table cams and have gone so far as replacing the table drive. I suspected the Spotting solenoid on 38 but after replacing it, no change occured.

Is this the same as a ghost/phantom rack?

What are we missing?

Other data: 8270 C's, MP chassis, various models of MP card are installed with Accuscore CWC's and a mix of 50 and 60 cycle front end motors (all tables are 60, some sweeps are still 50 cycle)

------------------

[Coors]

Re: 8270's "Short Cycling"

No...thats not the same as a phantom rack.

Sounds to me like The spotting latch is not dropping down on the spotting arm link......the solenoid is working because the shuttles worked and the table went all the way to the pindeck.....the only thing that didnt happen was the pin cups rotating. put the table @ zero....preferrably after picking up of pins....and manually push the latch down over the lever(or if you still have double solenoid front ends.....lift the hook over the latch)....ill bet there is the slightest bit of friction....and when the moon is right and the bitchiest bowler is on the pair.....the latch wont engage.

lengthen the spotting rod which is connected to the bottom of the lever....

now i know this will cause the pins to not be toed properly..but maybe they're toed to much anyhow.

[Guest]

Re: 8270's "Short Cycling"

Coors: It was said that the table did not go down to the pindeck. yes that is a Phantom Rack. During my first month, I experienced these Phantom Racks. I found that after re-spot the Latch on the table drive would not free itself so the table drive could put the table into a spotting motion. This was caused by lack of lubrication. I see you swaped table drives so I would do 1 of 2 things. Set up a Vid Camera on the front of the machine. Cycle the machine alot. See if ya ketch anything. Other than that the Spot Latch might be ketching onthe Spot lever. If it is behind the lever as i have seen it will give the appearance of a Phantom Rack. I do not think that it could be electrical but i will leave that up to my More Experienced Peers. if it is switch chassis and see if the problem follows.

deadwood

[GPS]

Re: 8270's "Short Cycling"

I too got the impression that the table was decending to a respoy height. This would indicate a table drive or a spot solonoid problem. Even though the solonoid pulls in far enough to permit shuttle to move forward it may not be causing the spot lever (flat finger that presses in the white nylon roller on table drive) to lock properly. Manually pull in the spot solonoid and try to lift up on the spot solonoid lever. It should be in a locked position. You may havem some type of shims between the solonoid and the mounting base. If you do remove them. Some are rubber washers. Remove them if your lever does not lock. If your table is coasting intermittently your table drive will not work properly. Finally check the roll pin just under the nylon roller. Hold the seating block that pops out of your eccentric disc and move thee nylon roller, check for some play in the roll pin. Good luck. Let us know.

[Kat]

Re: 8270's "Short Cycling"

GPS pretty much covered it...especially the coasting part which will give the intermittent problem described.

One word of caution though, the rubber washers between the S Solenoid are for dampening purposes and removing them might subject the solenoid to damaging vibration, possibly knocking loose the hot leg (120v) and causing it to short to the frame.

Also check your vertical alignment with the solenoid and plunger. All should be in a straight line.

Deadwood: As for electrical, this can be a problem here. If the table is not stopping at 355 degrees (at it should) the latch and nylon roller will be out of time with the trip flag to pop it out of the eccentric groove...resulting in the table short stroking to respot height. Very related to coasting problem.

Kat

[Coors]

Re: 8270's "Short Cycling"

Quote:]Originally posted by 8270_mech:
the cups rotate half way

and then the table takes the "pins" back to the top. [/QUOTE]

takes the pins back to the top...that tells me the solenoid is engaging. He adjusted the little cams.....if there was coasting or over run, messing with the cams should have shown some improvement.

I interpret this prob as pins shutlle into cups...table goes to the pin deck...but the spotting latch is not engaging...which causes the cups to appear to only rotate half way.

If i interpretted it wrong, i apologize

[kryley]

Re: 8270's "Short Cycling"

Hey guys...

The way I've interpreted this is that the cups/table is "stuck in respot mode" and only goes down to respot height and the cups tilt halfway.

If I am interpreting this right... this happened to me a couple of days ago on one of the lanes where a spot solenoid had just been replaced. I'm no big-shot on frontend stuff, but all I did was check the spring in the solenoid assy, and i found that it was bent and all rusted (humidity??), so I changed the spring and it was fine....

just thought i'd mention it... sorry if i interpreted wrong!!

have fun!!

[8270 pinspotter]

Re: 8270's "Short Cycling"

I had this problem on a lane where the spot solenoid was just replaced. It sounds to me like the flag the presses on the nylon roller on the table drive is not in a locked position causing the table to stay in respot mode. To solve this problem all I did was tighten the spot solenoid. Those little rubber spacers should be left in place to absorb any vibration. Just tighten the bolt that mount the spot solenoid until that linkage is in a locked postion when the engage the spot solenoid manually. This should solve your problem.

[8270_mech]

Re: 8270's "Short Cycling"

The table is not making all of the way to the pindeck. I found today that the latch is not releasing from the table drive. I will try to alter the length of the spot rod and see if that change in the friction between the spot latch and the spot lever.

Thanks top all of you that have sparked this old brain.

B

[JEFF KUHNLE]

Re: 8270's "Short Cycling"

they have it right for you

that is the hook giving you prob

jeff kuhnle

[mackinick]

Re: 8270's "Short Cycling"

Check the roll pin that holds the lever (flag) on the shaft. If this roll pin shears it will cause the problem you have.

[pat]

Re: 8270's "Short Cycling"

Hi,


A long time ago, when I was a boy we used to have this problem a lot. It was always the roll pin. I agree with Mackinick. even if it is not the roll pin this is a good and simple place to start.

Good luck
Pat

[Guest]

Re: 8270's "Short Cycling"

i have seen this a couple of times and both times i found that it was the spring assembly under the spot solenoid after the solenoid engaged the spring assy' would collapse replace the spring assembly.

Tim

[Terry Reichard]

Re: 8270's "Short Cycling"

I have had this problem on a few machines in the past, and the problem is that the Latch for the Spotting Arm Assy 070-006-455 will get stuck behind Spotting Arm Link Assy 070-006-481. If you purchase P/N 610-704-127 Latch Assy Kit Override (item #22 on page 4 of the small 82-70 parts book) it will solve the problem,

Terry

------------------

[8270king]

Re: 8270's "Short Cycling"

I had the same problem as coors. If your lanes have been sanded alot then to get the machines to spot correctly you have to make the spotting rod too short whic does not allow the latch to make it over the link which causes the eccentric not to engage so the table only goes to respot height. But check the roll pins in the table drive to make sure.

king