No S Motor Start (Hums)

[Kat]

Ok guys...need some ideas.

I've got a chassis (9802 MP) that when put onto a pinsetter, works fine with the exception that the S motor does not start up--it just hums.

Here's what I've done. I know it's somewhere inside the chassis because another chassis works fine.
All C1/C2A pins look fine. No broken wires in any of the terminals inside the blocks. S Contactor is brand new and good (Seimens-Allis type). PC Board is good. (9861 type)

It appears there's no power getting to the start windings of the S Motor since it's just humming (loudly!)

I'm leaning towards the idea of a bad leg off one of the transformers, but I thought I would throw this out at everyone and get some other ideas.

Thanks,

Kat

Re: No S Motor Start (Hums)

Kat,

I'm not dogging Vantage here. But is the contactor a GE from Vantage?…(At least I think they were GE, not positive), but I know they were from Vantage. I have had problems with those particular relays right out of the package.

I really don't see a problem in the lo-volt side if the relay is energizing. Since the relay is new, I would double check the NO, the NC’s to the C1 Pins just to make sure nothing got switched accidentally. Wouldn’t hurt to recheck the jumpers. Sometimes when you get real frustrated the simplest solutions are the answer.

Good Luck,
Tech

[Kat]

Re: No S Motor Start (Hums)

Tech:

Contactors are genuine Seimens-Allis from AMF. I double and triple checked the NO & NC points and terminations on the C1.

Still can't figure it out. I hate these kinda days.

Kat

[talon1189]

Re: No S Motor Start (Hums)

Kat....the best way to check out the C1 plug outside of a visual inspection, is to take a brand new male AMP pin, and put it in "all" the female pins in the C1 plug after it is disconnected from the chassis. You will be shocked at how many of them have loose connections when testing this. I go through all my machine C1 plugs every year for PM maintenance. I have very little electrical problems due to this PM work. If not take apart your sweep motor plug before it goes into the motor. Check all wires. I have found them either loose, or broken in the past to cause the same problem as you describe. Good luck!

[talon1189]

Re: No S Motor Start (Hums)

OK....Kat, I just read your post a 2nd time. I am a dinosaur 8270 mechanic with 26 years of full time experience. I was referring to the AMF 8270 machine. Good luck!

[Ed Fox]

Re: No S Motor Start (Hums)

Talking about contactors I would like to recomend the S/S contactors from bowl-tronics. Shure beats the crap every one else is putting out!

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Re: No S Motor Start (Hums)

Ok Kat...Just incase your not yanking my chain, by installing that chassis on an A2? Or any other fabrication (since I haven't tackled an MP for sometime). Also I'm not familiar with Allis merger, all my Seimens are just that.

You must have continuity from C1-41C to C1-22J with the S relay manually engaged for all the "hot" side to be good.

Since the return side is at a constant its just a matter of checking the NC's terminals to the pins.

A similar problem will also occur if there is a break in the (#3 or #4 center terms) wiring circuit for the SWRS. Usually that break will cause an immediate trip on the KX.

Tech

[Kat]

Re: No S Motor Start (Hums)

Tech:

Thanx for the info. I will check that continuity from the C1 thru the S contactor and back out to the C1. I also didn't think to check the SWSR, kinda thought about it and yup it could definitely be there too.

As far as putting the chassis on an
A-2...hmmm, that's interesting I'll have to look into that. LOL!

Kat

[Dutch]

Re: No S Motor Start (Hums)

Kat,
How are you doing with this problem?
I found this in the Pinspotter Operation Electrical manual. It may help you to troubleshoot the circuit you’re having trouble with.
“A voltmeter or neon voltage tester can be used to check for voltage at the motor plugs. Voltage will only be present at the plugs when the machine is on and the appropriate motor relay in the chassis is energized. With the motor cable disconnected from the motor, look at the mating surface of the plug. Table & sweep plugs are viewed with the index pin (nub on outside of plug) at the 9 o’clock position. Plug terminal identification is, starting at top left, clockwise; Y – Z - “Nil” – X (Hot). “CT” is the center terminal.
Voltage must be present between terminals X and Nil, and between X and Z of the TBL & SWP motor plugs. In addition, there must be continuity between terminals Y and CT. Remove power before performing continuity test.”
Recap;
Voltage tests (With power on)
X & Nil - Swp & Tbl
X & Z - Swp & Tbl
X & Y - Swp reverse

Continuity tests (With power off)
X & Z - (300 ohms) Breaking
Y & CT – Run
Z & Nil – Breaking

Hope this helps, good luck,
Dutch

Re: No S Motor Start (Hums)

use a good chassis next to the one that is giving you trouble and trace the wires down from the s - contacts i put the number that is next to my contacts for you to use as a reference
the red wire coming from 43 N .O . goes to C1-41c
the white wire off 43 N.O. goes to C!-47EE
a jumper goes from 43 N.O. to the 13 N.O .at the other end
the purpel wire goes from 31 N.C .to C1-21D
the white wire goes from 21 N.C.to C1-23N
the black wire from 13 N.O. that you ran the jumper to goes to the N.O .-44 on the table contacts
a blue wire from the same 13 N.O. goes to f-2.

a gray wire from 44 N.O .goes to C1-22J
a jumper goes from the 44 N.O .to the 14 N.O .on the other end.
a black wire from 32 N.C .goes to C1-24T
a jumper goes from 22 N.C .to the 14 N.O .that you hooked the other jumper to
i hope that this helps

[8270king]

Re: No S Motor Start (Hums)

I know you have a chassis problem here but I was working on a 70 today and your post reminded me of a weird problem on a sweep motor. About 7 years ago we had synthetic decks installed and we were getting about 20 off spots a day. Lane 13 had an off spot and after lifting the sweep the next cycle the sweep motor would only hum. After about 1 day of tracing wires I found out the sweep run switch was bad in the control box. After years of running that sweep back to zero one finially went out. The next month another one went bad. Then I replaced all of the sweep run switches. Just might be helful info some day.

king

[Jimmy Jam]

Re: No S Motor Start (Hums)

I never dug into an m.p. chassis but looking at the scematic theres a M2 relay in the mix. Did you try changing that?

[Dutch]

Re: No S Motor Start (Hums)

Maybe the heat sink assy? Does the MP even have one?
Dutch

[This message has been edited by dutch (edited 11-13-2000).]