Vibration Dampeners

[Dutch]

Those of you currently using the Stahl’s compression style vibration dampener (000-021-224-T), Murrey has recently redesigned their vibration dampener (Same # w/o the "T")with a softer urethane. It’s just as soft as the Stahl’s version & costs less, $9.95 vs. $11.27.
Thank you, Gordon, Bill & the rest of your staff for listening to those of us out in the trenches & improving your products to help make our job easier.
Dutch

[murreyinternat]

Re: Vibration Dampeners

Dutch.....One of the most important things we have learned at Murrey International is to LISTEN. No one is more knowledgeable on the machines than techs like yourself who work on them. Being a manufacturer, rather than a distributor gives us that added edge to make changes. Thanks for all your imput. It is highly appreciated.
PS: I will be in Reno in April, I will make a point to stop by and visit. I will let you know the exact dates when they become available. Bill
Quote:]Originally posted by dutch:
Those of you currently using the Stahl’s compression style vibration dampener (000-021-224-T), Murrey has recently redesigned their vibration dampener (Same # w/o the "T")with a softer urethane. It’s just as soft as the Stahl’s version & costs less, $9.95 vs. $11.27.
Thank you, Gordon, Bill & the rest of your staff for listening to those of us out in the trenches & improving your products to help make our job easier.
Dutch[/QUOTE]

[8270king]

Re: Vibration Dampeners

Dutch,

Every time I use the new style dampeners I break rear bounce plate sections like crazy.
Are the new softer ones able to flex enough that you do not brake bounce plates ????
With a quick disconnect cushion I can pop a front roller out and change two old style dampeners in 1/2 hour without breaking a sweat. The problem with losing bounce plates is there is really no visual check and standing on one or kneeling and checking for deflection doesn't always tell you if one is cracked. Guess what I did on turkey day - you got it, replace bounce board on 10. I have converted most of mine to the new u bar rear section and I double stover nut 5/16 bolts. These do not come apart. I think the real fix would be to use the rubber mounts for kidneys instead of dampeners ! If we could engineer them you could replace them with 2 freespinning locknuts. Let me know about the new dampeners.

thanks
king

[Dutch]

Re: Vibration Dampeners

None of the new style dampeners are as flexible as the engine mounts that AMF uses. However, these softer, new style dampeners are flexible enough that, with one small modification (that costs about $1.50) you won’t break anymore rear boards than you currently do, maybe even less.
I’ve never seen the new “U” bar, for the rear board but I assume that it mounts to the same holes as the old “T” bar. If so, this should work fine. For the sake of my instructions, I’ll be referring to that brace as the “T” bar.
Take one of the straps (070-001-421) that holds the curtain protection pad onto the cushion weldment & using a 5/16 bolt, bolt it to the bounce plate angle bracket (000-029-626) where the “T” bar meets the angle bracket but don’t tighten it yet. Remove the last bolt on the end of the “T” bar. Move the strap into place over the hole & tighten the bolt that you’ve already installed. Flip the bounce plate over & drill a 5/16 hole thru the strap. Install another 5/16 bolt here & you’re done.
By using this extra brace, even if the board does break, the pit won’t collapse. You may not even know the board is broken till the next time you take the pit apart.
Even if you don’t use the new dampeners, I’d suggest putting the strap on the bounce plates anyway, they work great.
Dutch

[This message has been edited by dutch (edited 12-08-2000).]

[8270king]

Re: Vibration Dampeners

Dutch,

Sounds like a good idea! I do not think I can your modification whith the u channel instead of the t bar. The u channel uses 5/16 hardware instead of 1/4 for the t bar. The only boards I have seen break in recent history are the white ones. I guess you answered my question because you still seem to have broken boards with the new dampeners. Our house is extremely high lineage with alot of rock n bowl traffic and heavy balls. I think this is why we broke so many boards with the stahls dampeners. Maybe a binstrap under my u channels would work.

Thanks,
King

[Guest]

Re: Vibration Dampeners

82/70 King: What kind of bounce boards are you currently using that break when you put new dampners on? We use dampners from Vantage, never had any rear boards break except the white ones from AMF. Wow another failure there.... Looks like they must have made a mistake or something because I just did a pit the other day and the rear bounce board was the white beta from AMF. Cracked in two places right where the pit support bracket mets the bounce board.

deadwood

[Jimmy Jam]

Re: Vibration Dampeners

I use AMF's with no problems. I moonlighted at another house a few years ago that used VANTAGE and didn't see any trouble.
I wonder what effect the new style support brackets have on dampeners? Not being angled and all.
I must have reduced R.b.b. and cushion weldment breakage in half when I cut off the excess rudder idler shaft sticking out behind the plank 6 years ago. The shafts were never trimmed at installation. I got 1/4 gouges in the planks were the cushions were hitting the shafts. That tells me the rest of the force was transmitted to the bounce board assy.. Worse was if the ball was thrown opposite ball door twisting the cushion weldment. Every time I do a L.H. cushion assy I space out the plank to stop it from hitting the ratchet assy..
I've noticed un-trimmed idler shafts in all the houses I've been in around here. Possibly the same crew installed them?

Gary

[Dutch]

Re: Vibration Dampeners

King,
I know what you mean about high lineage, if it’s possible to break it, high lineage will do it. We’re a high lineage house too, about 50 lines per bed, per day. I’ve seen things break that the manufacturer said wouldn’t break. If they made grade 10 bolts, we’d use them.
The Vantage boards that we use (The Terminator) have 5/16” holes, instead of ¼”, so we drilled all of the “T” bar holes. The bin strap should work if you’re using the Tuffy bin strap from Stahl’s. I’ve never seen anything beefier.

Jonas,
What length are your cushion shock springs? I’ve never seen the cushion plank hitting either the ratchet shaft or the rudder belt tensioner shaft, unless the spring collar had slipped.
Dutch

[Ed Fox]

Re: Vibration Dampeners

Ive tried the new style H/D vibration dampners or should I say "bounce plate breakers"! You know, the pit takes a hell of a beating and something has to give! Why not just mount one big piece of steel across the pit! In this area I feel that OEM is the best, if you do your maintance to the pits (we do aprox. 350 LPB year round average) and I pull the pits every two years. I dont even mess around, just replace all 4 dampners no matter what condition. I might lose 2 or 3 dampners mid season, sure beats lossing a bounce plate in a middle of a leage! As far as the new style supports go I think the idea kicks *** but they went to a softer metal!
Ed

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[kevin gaskill]

Re: Vibration Dampeners

bounce plates.sorry im not doing capitals today.your all crazy the rear bounce plate takes the beating.the vibration dampener dosent mean **** ok.ive tried them all same basic problem ok.the vantage plates will break if the wind blows the wrong way. they havent figured out how to make parts yet ok. if your buying parts from them you need a new career.now heres what you do when you pull a pit take a 5/16 drill bit and go through bounce prlate and t bar.then open the hole on the bounce plate with a lar.ger bit so you can grab a 5/16 bolt with a socket use grade 8 hardware.put a small washer on the bolt these are special washers you can get at a hardware store which have a inside diameter which will go on the bolt and have a very little outside diameter to fit the hole went into detail for those who dont understand.on the bottom lock washer and lock nut.you will never have a problem again.also the uni pit supports are the strongest thing out there. good luck i came on to ask a question about back end mts . if you see my question please repy.

[kevin gaskill]

Re: Vibration Dampeners

bounce plates.sorry im not doing capitals today.your all crazy the rear bounce plate takes the beating.the vibration dampener dosent mean **** ok.ive tried them all same basic problem ok.the vantage plates will break if the wind blows the wrong way. they havent figured out how to make parts yet ok. if your buying parts from them you need a new career.now heres what you do when you pull a pit take a 5/16 drill bit and go through bounce prlate and t bar.then open the hole on the bounce plate with a lar.ger bit so you can grab a 5/16 bolt with a socket use grade 8 hardware.put a small washer on the bolt these are special washers you can get at a hardware store which have a inside diameter which will go on the bolt and have a very little outside diameter to fit the hole went into detail for those who dont understand.on the bottom lock washer and lock nut.you will never have a problem again.also the uni pit supports are the strongest thing out there. good luck i came on to ask a question about back end mts . if you see my question please repy.

[Kat]

Re: Vibration Dampeners

Once again, I'm probably in the minority here, but here it goes:

I've never had any problems with Vantage parts. I'm not sticking up for them, but the fact is I never have a problem...granted, this may be due to the fact of how young my machines are and everything is pretty much adjusted correctly and no mis-alignment problems.
As far as the dampeners go, I use the new style stacked type exclusively. The only bounce board failure I've had in the past 2 years were the crappy white ones from AMF. Those piece of crap HDPE originally designed for the 90s. When doing a pit I make sure all hardware is TIGHT, and TIGHT AGAIN, AND TIGHT AGAIN! This prevents slop which leads to elongated holes, which leads to extra movements and flex in the boards, leading to snap! Most important is that you have your T-Bar supports bolted TIGHTLY to the bounce boards and no cracks in the channel weldments as well.

No having chasers use the pit as a trampoline usually helps too!

Kat

[8270king]

Re: Vibration Dampeners

Hey guys, instead of drilling your t bars just throw them in the trash and get the u channel - I think they are just $7. When I put on the u channels I double stover nut them as well as double stover nutthe bounce plate brackets. The new style brackets are the best. I have had some on for 5 years and Have only seen one fail. Deadwood, the rear bounce plates I had fail were the original amf. They were pretty old but I had never seen any originals fail until the new dampeners. In doing service in a house with some old 70 converted b's, they had bounce boards without t bars and just 3 angle supports and 1 channel. Maybe the t bars make the boards too rigid? They claimed they had not had any boards ever fail - but they used all amf orig dampeners.

king

[Jimmy Jam]

Re: Vibration Dampeners

Dutch,

All my shock springs are 6-61/4. Most of the 36 planks are at least 20 years old so maybe the damage came before I got here. I have replaced 2 or 3 bad shocks over the past ten years so that acounts for that. Can't you pull any of your planks back far enough to hit something?
I also have kickbacks I've never seen before. They don't have the hotdog bun shaped holes in them. Setters came from AMF Int. ENGLAND.

Somebody in town was having 1/8" stainless steel R. bounce plates made that are installed on the under-side. I ran accross a few and man were they heavy! I forgot why I pulled those pits but it was'nt because of a busted board.
VANTAGE and AMF both have a good b.board.
Has anyone been brave enough to try the plywood one from QUALITY (I think)?

Goodnight,Jonas

[Dutch]

Re: Vibration Dampeners

Jonas,
No, none of our planks hit anything. With your shocks set at 6-6 ¼, yours shouldn’t either. Maybe it is old stuff or something unique to your house. Are the “hot dog bun” holes you’re talking about the ones by the curtain rod hole? I’ve never known what those were for anyway.

I agree with Kat about Vantage parts. They have several parts that we use exclusively, such as their bounce boards, respot cell frames & cushion planks, just to name a few. You do have to be careful though. They’re not afraid to sell seconds. I’ve returned a few things like, respot cell frames that won’t line up with the screw holes in the table & recently, a cushion plank that had putty filling, not only imperfections in the wood but also where they had drilled the holes in the wrong places.
Dutch