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  • sweep reverse after off spot

    Our center is equiped with Steltronic Computers and our chassis is equiped with a sweep reverse relay, which is activated if a ball is thrown in the gutter or hits only the 7 or 10 pin.
    What happens a lot of times : a pin is sliding and the off- spot switch is activated, this means someone will have to come to action to do a manual sweep reverse, that looks like a machine that does have a problem. This, knowing the computer can send a command (via aps) to make a sweep reverse action to zero position described above makes me wondering why the machine can't make a sweep reverse action after an off spot.

    Please send some answers/information if you realy know a solution or have any suggestions for me to solve this.
    My excuses fo my poor english, but would you like to talk in dutch in with me, you're a real hero.!!!

    Greetings

    Martin de Beer (junior forever!!!)

    [This message has been edited by lampie (edited 12-15-2000).]

    [This message has been edited by lampie (edited 12-19-2000).]
    So it goes.

  • #2
    Re: sweep reverse after off spot

    lampie,

    Welcome to bowltech. The reason an automatic sweep reverse is not part of the chassis program, is that most of the time an out of range "OOR" call usually has deadwood lying on the deck. This must be cleared by a mechanic since the machine can't.

    In USA, an oor is the same principle as golf ball hit in the ruff...hit the ball where it lies is similar to knock down the remaining pins even when they slide oor without any interference.

    Hope this helps you understand the reasoning behind the programming.

    Tech

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: sweep reverse after off spot

      Tek-mek

      I know there's lying dead wood on the pindeck, sometimes, after an out of range, but my experience is tha 99 out of 100 times the only action I have to take is to make a manual sweep reverse to zero.
      In case of league bowling, I sometimes have to remove one or more pins on the deck(and do a sweep reverse after that). But most of the times the dead wood is already on the carpet or in the gutter, in both cases our league bowlers don't have a problem with this and just throw their second ball after someone has lifted the sweep.
      In case of open bowling : Our customers don't care if some dead wood is laying on the pindeck, they don't even care to notice the sweep is down after an OOR (or other moments), they just bowl and hit the sweep and/or complain about the machine.
      So, for me it's still interesting to hear something about how I can make an automatic sweep reverse after an out of range.
      (disconnecting the off spot switch is not the solution I look for !)

      Lampie


      [This message has been edited by lampie (edited 12-19-2000).]
      So it goes.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: sweep reverse after off spot

        lampie, I think it's a great idea! With the Brunswick pinsetter you can install this option, why not with AMF?
        Ed

        ------------------
        Please buy MADE IN USA!

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: sweep reverse after off spot

          Hey guys.

          I don't know about everyone else, but when we get offspots at my centre, 99% of them have dead wood lying in the gutter or on the pin deck. I have always been taught to remove deadwood from anywhere (ie gutters or pin deck) in a league or tournament situation when we get an offspot, but I don't really worry about it for social play - depends on what mood I'm in!!

          Anyway, the main point of my reply is we received a MP Chassis Plus the other day from AMF that has the usual Reset, Table Run, Sweep Run, and Cycle buttons on the front, but this one also has 5 option switches.

          Here's what the 5 option switches do if they are in the ON position

          Instructomat - the pinspotter will ignore the instructomat instruction
          Off spot - the pinspotter will perform a sweep reverse on an "off spot" condition
          Foul - the pinspotter will not run a foul cycle
          B/E - the backend motor will run continuously
          Service - allows mechanic to locally operate and service the pinspotter

          We all found this interesting - we ordered the standard MP chassis from AMF and got this! We haven't tried the option switches yet, but I will have a tinker with it on Monday..... looks like a solution to your problem!! Has anyone else come across these chassis's??

          Have fun!!

          [This message has been edited by kryley (edited 12-15-2000).]

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: sweep reverse after off spot

            Kryley:


            Those Chassis that you are describing are the MP Plus and Superstar from AMF. Guess what, you can get the same chassis from Creative Technologies (They make them for AMF) alot cheaper! We use the Ultra 98 Plus here, same as the Superstar, and benefit from the Automatic SWSR on OS cycle.

            With these new chassis you also get advanced features such as pit idle timeout, and so forth.

            Kat
            "Where are we going, and why are we in a hand basket?"

            --Kat

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: sweep reverse after off spot

              im waitin on Omega Tek to come out with an expander-expander board with that option...for the SS chassis

              it shouldn't be to hard....just make the off-spot switch activate the gutter cycle sweep reverse circuits....im sure it will be an ecomomical value at just $100 bucks a lane

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: sweep reverse after off spot

                Quote:]Originally posted by Kat:
                Those Chassis that you are describing are the MP Plus and Superstar from AMF. Guess what, you can get the same chassis from Creative Technologies[/QUOTE]

                Kat:

                Would you be able to give me the contact details for Creative Technologies??? It would be worth looking into I think.

                Also, do you know if they have a branch or dealer in Australia, cos that would save a whole heap of dosh rather than getting them shipped from the US.

                Thanks.

                Have fun!!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: sweep reverse after off spot

                  Kryley:

                  To be honest I dunno if they have any distributors in Australia. But I'm sure the $$$ you will save will far exceed the S&H shipping from the States.

                  When I get in to my shop on Monday I will post their # and address...I know they have two models to choose and in two variations.
                  You can choose a model with more or less features and with the control buttons facing the front or the rear of the pinsetter.

                  Kat
                  "Where are we going, and why are we in a hand basket?"

                  --Kat

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: sweep reverse after off spot

                    I am not very strong in electronic skills but I think we could make this work. All we would have to do is use the circuit completed by the microswitch for the off spot under the table driive clevis. Maybe just use a chair terminal on the terminal strip and run that wire into the c1 plug to engage the relay (ss chassis with expander), maybe it would go to the wire coming out of the autoscoring cable to the expander(4 wire)? Or the wire from the os switch could go to the c23 plug on a mp chassis.

                    king

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: sweep reverse after off spot

                      Kat:

                      Thanks anyway, but I spoke to one of the managers at work today about the chassis's and he himself has looked into the ones from Creative Technologies, and they end up being about half of AMF's price. He also answered my question that, no, they don't have a branch in Australia, but as you said, the saving I'd make from getting them from CT would seriously outway postage costs.

                      Thanks for your time.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: sweep reverse after off spot

                        Kryley:


                        Anytime...


                        Kat
                        "Where are we going, and why are we in a hand basket?"

                        --Kat

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: sweep reverse after off spot

                          Although I’m no Einstein when it comes to electronics, I’ve done a little dabbling in it.

                          Until now, I’ve never thought about deadwood being a problem, since it is usually part of the league rules to clear it. (Don’t quote me if it’s not ABC’s)

                          Now you guys have my curiosity brewin, to think about a workable circuit that could be flipped by a switch for open play.

                          A cheap dual timer relay circuit that can be built by radio shack parts for under $20 could be triggered by the oor switch either by a relay or direct. (No telling without measurements and testing)

                          Once this circuit is triggered by the oor switch,
                          First timer starts...to allow the table to run its course

                          Then the other timer (set very short)...powers the SWRS relay for that duration.

                          The relay is actuating the SWRS and the SWS simultaneous just as the mechanic would.

                          Tech

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: sweep reverse after off spot

                            I'm not going to spend much time on this topic since I have 5 boards and have never dug into an MP system.

                            My thinking is that the logic in the board tells the sweep to reverse and cancel table cycle. So in order to make it work you would have to interface the O.S. line voltage into the chip clock speed realm. I can't do that.

                            Maybe you could branch off on the O.S. circuit. Ad a 10v relay in the circuit. Might go something like this: voltage goes from chassis to O.S.--O.S. to relay coil--relay coil to chassis. Then attach wires from the swrvs relay coil to the com/n.o. of the added relay. Can't tell you the voltage of the chassis relay. If its 24v you would have to catch it off the trans. and send it through the added relay. Don't know if it's that simple. I dought it. The logic in the board would probably still want to cancel sweep. Only way around that would be to power the sweep relay also. But logic still might get messed-up by the cam switches.

                            good topic,

                            Jonas

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: sweep reverse after off spot

                              Jonas and Tech-Mech,

                              The ideas the two of you gave, might start the sweep (in reverse), but when does it stop ??(not your ideas but the sweep reverse action ofcours). I don't know the answer either(yet), but I hope there is someone that does !
                              Thanks so far for your replys !

                              Lampie

                              ------------------
                              So it goes.

                              Comment

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